Artemis by Andy Weir

Silvion Night

Sir Readalot
Staff member
#21
I often wonder what would happen if Europe remained paganistic. Where would we be now? Who knows.
That's an interesting question really. There are a lot of pagan elements in Europe still of course, intertwined with other believe systems, but I see what you mean. A wholly pagan patchwork of believes in Europe. To bring this discussion back to Fantasy, in the Crown of Stars series by Kate Eliot we find a Europe divided in countries that have a Christian-like faith, but also a lot of regions where they have a variety of what we could call pagan beliefs. I can highly recommend this!
 

Derk of Derkholm

Journeyed there and back again
#22
Regarding Malaysia, it kinda had the same historical destiny as Bosnia, where Islam came many centuries ago, and it established itself.
Don't know about Bosnia, but what was special in Malaysia is that the religion was adopted peacefully between the 12th and 15th century...
And, Islam was at that point in time one of the more progressive available religions...

I have heard that some freedoms aren't really there yet in Malaysia, and that is unfortunate for their people.
I take it over the U.S. of A. every day.....
But then, I am not a muslim, so I do not have to adhere to the laws for those.
 

Alucard

In the name of the Pizza Lord. Charge!
Staff member
#23
There are a lot of pagan elements in Europe still of course, intertwined with other belief systems, but I see what you mean.
Maybe we wouldn't have middle ages and maybe Europe would hit enlightenment and renaissance much faster. Pagan Europeans were much more cool with sharing their beliefs. For example they would leave offerings to their gods and their neighbor's gods for good harvest, just in case. You know playing all the fields lol.
You could say they were firm believers in Pascal's wager. Practical bunch if you catch my meaning :D
To bring this discussion back to Fantasy, in the Crown of Stars series by Kate Eliot we find a Europe divided in countries that have a Christian-like faith, but also a lot of regions where they have a variety of what we could call pagan beliefs. I can highly recommend this!
Thanks for this rec. I heard of it, but I don't know what it was about. Iron Druid series is also great for reading about European paganism. So far Hearne has tackled Norse, Celtic and Slavic myth - pretty much all the major European groups.
Don't know about Bosnia, but what was special in Malaysia is that the religion was adopted peacefully between the 12th and 15th century...
In Bosnia Islam came with the expansion of Ottoman Empire in 15th century. It wasn't peaceful. Kingdom of Bosnia ended then. The king died and the last queen of Bosnia, Katarina fled to Rome.
The empire had mechanisms in place for conversion. For example, devshirme or blood tax, where the Ottomans would take very young christian boys from their families as a tax. A lot of those boys grew up to be in janissaries. So if parents didn't want to lose their son, they would convert to Islam.
For girls, they would take them to harems or worse, the local ottoman aristocrat would exercise lord's right (Droit du seigneur). This was common in medieval period in Europe, but if you didn't want your wife raped on your wedding night you would convert.
No conquest is ever peaceful but add religion to that and you pretty much guarantee to bring horrors to the conquered people.