Dark Fantasy with adult content

Tanniel

Hired Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune
#41
I haven't read it, but that Court of Broken Knives thing should apparently be grimdark and by a female author.
 

Darwin

Journeyed there and back again
#42
I don't agree with msmoorad but his post made me think if I know any female author that writes grimdark and I can't say I do. Any female Joe Abercrombie you guys know?
Coldfire Trilogy was pretty dark, iirc. Not really the grimdark "tone" of Abercrombie...

The grimdark subgenre itself is pretty small, and its largely a cynical response to the LoTR-style fantasy where good and evil are forces. With the commercial success of GoT, I'm sure we'll see more permutations of dark and grim fantasy by male and female authors alike, and some of these will likely be appropriate to label as grimdark. It wouldn't surprise me if there are no female Joe Abercrombies; there's barely a handful of male authors who deserve comparison to Joe, and there's plenty of reasons why female authors might be more likely to choose to pursue other areas of the fantasy meta.

As a community here, we tend to have pretty sophisticated fantasy book palates. Its hard to talk about genre trends when only the upper outlier (in terms of quality) books are worth discussing at all. You could have just as easily claimed that there are no LGBTQ grimdark books...then along came A Land Fit for Heroes. We can sit around stating with certainty that there are no female grimdark authors, but there likely will be in the next several years.
 

Alucard

In the name of the Pizza Lord. Charge!
Staff member
#44
It wouldn't surprise me if there are no female Joe Abercrombies; there's barely a handful of male authors who deserve comparison to Joe,
Dammit. He needs some competition to keep him on his toes :D We as readers would benefit from it.


You could have just as easily claimed that there are no LGBTQ grimdark books...then along came A Land Fit for Heroes.
I didn't claim anything. I just asked, because I genuinely can't think of one female grimdark author that I have read. Would you say that Richard K. Morgan's book are LGBTQ grimdark books or just grimdark books that feature LGBTQ characters? Because I would read the heck out of the latter option and I wouldn't touch the former one. I couldn't care less what sexuality of your characters is, if your whole shtick revolves around their sexuality instead of the actual story and plot, than good luck to you, but I don't read that shit, same way I don't read heterosexual erotica.

We can sit around stating with certainty that there are no female grimdark authors, but there likely will be in the next several years.
I am genuinely looking forward to this.
 

jo zebedee

Journeyed there and back again
#45
I don't agree with msmoorad but his post made me think if I know any female author that writes grimdark and I can't say I do. Any female Joe Abercrombie you guys know?
More than people think. Anna Smith Spark has been mentioned. Deborah A Wolf is well thought of. Teresa Frohock is well established as is Kameron Hurley and Francis Knight is also pretty grim. I write grimdark space opera (but obviously not well as has been established above. Sadly Mills and Boon don't seem to want my military themes, torture and extended PTSD scenes but, who knows....? They might come to their senses yet :D)
 

Silvion Night

Sir Readalot
Staff member
#46

Alucard

In the name of the Pizza Lord. Charge!
Staff member
#47
Thanks to all of you who commented. I need to look into some of these names. @jo zebedee to me the crux of grimdark isn't about the violence or sex, it's about cynicism, dark humour and to one extent nihilism. I am not a fan of this genre because it has torture scenes, rape or any kind of shock value. I like it because cynicism and dark humour stray from the happy go lucky personas that populate high fantasy, that are heroes in a proper sense of the world. I've been through a lot of shit in my life and at age 35 I find myself to relate better to grizzeled old northerner from the first law books, than I do with an idealistic young adult out to save the world.
I don't know, these books just click with me.

Thats a very specific remark. :p
Lol, well what I meant is that I find all sexual orientations in humans and animals normal and that topic is to be honest quite boring to me so I wouldn't read about it regardless if it's packaged as erotica or grimdark.
 
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Silvion Night

Sir Readalot
Staff member
#48
Thanks to all of you who commented. I need to look into some of these names. @jo zebedee to me the crux of grimdark isn't about the violence or sex, it's about cynicism, dark humour and to one extent nihilism. I am not a fan of this genre because it has torture scenes, rape or any kind of shock value. I like it because cynicism and dark humour stray from the happy go luck personas that populate high fantasy, that are heroes in a proper sense of the world. I've been through a lot of shit in my life and at age 35 I find myself to relate better to grizzeled old northerner from the first law books, than I do with an idealistic young adult out to save the world.
I don't know, these books just click with me.


Lol, well what I meant is that I find all sexual orientations in humans and animals normal and that topic is to be honest quite boring to me so I wouldn't read about it regardless if it's packaged as erotica or grimdark.
Aah yeah, I see what you mean.

And I find my reading preferences pretty much in line with yours. Aah, I remember being 16. Naive and sure that I could save the world. Now I'm 32 years old (in a couple of weeks) and I'm quite cynical.

@kenubrion , @Nuomer1 : please tell me that after the age of 40 I will slowly switch back again to my teenage mind-set.
 

Alucard

In the name of the Pizza Lord. Charge!
Staff member
#49
I see now that I'm so cynical that I aged myself for 1 year. I'm 34 lol



please tell me that after the age of 40 I will slowly switch back again to my teenage mind-set.
I know a couple of old folks 60+, that are like this. Although I guess it depends on what kind of a teen you were. I was a typical case of teen angst, hated the world and everyone in it lol, so it might not be good for me to go back to that when I'm over 60.
 
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jo zebedee

Journeyed there and back again
#50
Thanks to all of you who commented. I need to look into some of these names. @jo zebedee to me the crux of grimdark isn't about the violence or sex, it's about cynicism, dark humour and to one extent nihilism. I am not a fan of this genre because it has torture scenes, rape or any kind of shock value. I like it because cynicism and dark humour stray from the happy go lucky personas that populate high fantasy, that are heroes in a proper sense of the world. I've been through a lot of shit in my life and at age 35 I find myself to relate better to grizzeled old northerner from the first law books, than I do with an idealistic young adult out to save the world.
I don't know, these books just click with me.
Hee. Don't worry I was being tongue in cheek re the earlier Mills and Boon comment ;) (whilst I do have the sort of stuff mentioned in my earlier post it tends to be only in one specific part of the story - but I think I didn't balance the humour well enough in my first book because, of course, it is one of the things that makes grimdark work. I think I did it better in my standalone book but only cos it's set in Northern Ireland and our humour is pretty much quintessential Grimdark fare. Comes of growing up in chaos :D)
 

Darwin

Journeyed there and back again
#51
Would you say that Richard K. Morgan's book are LGBTQ grimdark books or just grimdark books that feature LGBTQ characters? Because I would read the heck out of the latter option and I wouldn't touch the former one. I couldn't care less what sexuality of your characters is, if your whole shtick revolves around their sexuality instead of the actual story and plot, than good luck to you, but I don't read that shit, same way I don't read heterosexual erotica.
You should definitely read these books. The main character being gay wasn't something I thought would add much to the story, but I was terribly wrong. I really can't express how well done it is.
 

Alucard

In the name of the Pizza Lord. Charge!
Staff member
#52
You should definitely read these books. The main character being gay wasn't something I thought would add much to the story, but I was terribly wrong. I really can't express how well done it is.
Is the story good though? Is there dark humour and what about character development?
Nobody talks much about Morgan's books around these parts and all I have heard about it (until you) is 'it has gay sex in it' to which my mind goes immediately 'meh who cares about that'.
 

Sneaky Burrito

Crazy Cat Lady
Staff member
#53
please tell me that after the age of 40 I will slowly switch back again to my teenage mind-set.
I'm not feeling (mentally or physically) much like my teenage self at all and I will be 40 in October...
 

Darwin

Journeyed there and back again
#54
Is the story good though? Is there dark humour and what about character development?

Nobody talks much about Morgan's books around these parts and all I have heard about it (until you) is 'it has gay sex in it' to which my mind goes immediately 'meh who cares about that'.
The story is excellent, there's tons of the humor you're looking for, etc. Being gay isn't some unimportant detail in Ringil's life; it's a capital offense in the religion that dominates his land. It's really impossible for me to describe how intertwined the LGTB stuff is with the plot. It's a masterpiece of world building, though, to create a world that weaves in the modern and historical prejudices from our own world into a society that feels appropriate for a fantasy world. Please read it and report back! I'm sure you'll like it, and I'd love to see if you describe how well done it is better than I can.

It's right up there with Abercrombie and Heroes Die on my personal favorite grimdark list.
 

msmoorad

Will likely be killed by a Lannister soon
#58
i wi
Obviously you haven't read Elizabeth Moon. Or Kate Elliott. Or J. V. Jones. Or Robin Hobb. Or V. E. Schwab. Or Mercedes Lackey. Or Katherine Kurtz. Or Leigh Bardugo. Or C. J. Cherryh. Or Martha Wells.
i will have a look at the work of those writers but from now im telling u that i know i will come back here saying that its not the same as the stuff men write.
i hope im pleasantly surprised to be wrong but lets see...
 

jo zebedee

Journeyed there and back again
#59
i wi

i will have a look at the work of those writers but from now im telling u that i know i will come back here saying that its not the same as the stuff men write.
i hope im pleasantly surprised to be wrong but lets see...
Ha! I sincerely hope you do. It's not about writing the same as the men (or each other!) but about writing our own thing equally well :) (which may not, of course, be to your taste.)
 

msmoorad

Will likely be killed by a Lannister soon
#60
ive been through a few (not all)
Obviously you haven't read Elizabeth Moon. Or Kate Elliott. Or J. V. Jones. Or Robin Hobb. Or V. E. Schwab. Or Mercedes Lackey. Or Katherine Kurtz. Or Leigh Bardugo. Or C. J. Cherryh. Or Martha Wells.
books by the writers u mentioned
as expected, pathetic .
it seems u dont know the meaning of dark fantasy or gore etc.

the few chapters i skimmed trough read just like the other sappy stuff i complained about.