I like *this* so recommend me.....

MorteTorment

Hired Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune
Hi @MorteTorment, how exactly are soldiers not warriors?
Hey there Boras, how's it going?

Sorry about the delayed response. I meant to answer this the day after you asked this.

I didn't know how to answer your question, so I contacted my best friend, and asked her how to explain it.

The short answer is that they are warriors, just not the type that I enjoy reading about.

The very long answer is this


Superrpgman2003 (3:58:36 PM): Hey there, you know how we both prefer warriors than soldiers. Well someone asked me how a soldier isn't a warrior, and I don't know how to answer that, can you?
angamingrocklady signed on at 6:48:05 PM
angamingrocklady (6:53:07 PM): I'm not sure it which of us came up with term warrior but the point is not whether soilders are warriors but that not all warriors are soilders. The concept should probably be expressed in a more verbose manner than simply using the term warrior. Rather, saying playing a warrior type character whom is not a soilder. Soilders are part of military units, they give or take orders and that unit is cohesive and with certain rules, codes, etc. Introduce the concept of a warrior independant of such an orginization.
Superrpgman2003 (6:54:21 PM): Ok, yeah, I got that much, the real problem is explaining why I don't want to read a book about a soldier in the army.
angamingrocklady (6:54:48 PM): The simpliest answer is militrary material doesn't interest you
angamingrocklady (6:55:50 PM): If the person asks why is that, you should be able to express why it doesn't without help from me. All you simply need to do is consider why it doesn't interest you
Superrpgman2003 (6:56:01 PM): Well said, thanks Kat.
Superrpgman2003 (6:57:35 PM): My reasoning behind it not interesting me is that I prefer combat where it's a few people versus a few poeple, or else too much will be going on for me in most battles. And yes, that includes skirmishes people! :p
angamingrocklady (6:58:13 PM): But you mentioned a book, that answer works more for games but not as well for books
Superrpgman2003 (6:58:53 PM): No, that answer works even better with books, it's too much to keep track of in my mind.
angamingrocklady (6:59:31 PM): Alright but to me books rarely concentrate on many individuals within military units during battle but rather those whom are named are the important figures
Superrpgman2003 (6:59:50 PM): not to mention that it means that a lot of focus is gonna be put on all these characters which I probalby won't care about.
angamingrocklady (7:00:43 PM): I think it depends on the story itself, usually I got the idea the major players were mentioned and the rest were just soilders usually
Superrpgman2003 (7:01:15 PM): Again, the problem is a matter of too many major players in one battle.
angamingrocklady (7:01:54 PM): Lol, I guess you need to stick to one on one battles then because I wasn't even speaking about more than about 6 or 7:p
angamingrocklady (7:03:03 PM): My reasons are very different, I'm simply uninistered in reading about warfare for the most part
Superrpgman2003 (7:03:09 PM): I'm fine with like 5 on 5 :p
Superrpgman2003 (7:03:25 PM): Oh, that too
Superrpgman2003 (7:04:18 PM): I also love seeing 5 on one incredibly powerful villain
angamingrocklady (7:04:21 PM): My main point was you overcomplicated the issue when you mentioned warriors to begin with, it's better to stick to simplier reasons
Superrpgman2003 (7:04:44 PM): You're rifhr
Superrpgman2003 (7:05:05 PM): I should also say that in this case, the main character doesn't sound very compelling
angamingrocklady (7:06:08 PM): I'm just considering how I'd answer someone asking why I wouldn't want to read a Mills and Boons novel (trashy romance stories) and my answer would be simple: They are unmigigated tripe:p
Superrpgman2003 (7:06:27 PM): lol
Superrpgman2003 (7:06:45 PM): I can see the apppeal of these though
Superrpgman2003 (7:06:57 PM): the novels that were suggested to me.
angamingrocklady (7:07:27 PM): I could see the appeal in Mills and Boons novels (somehow) but I'd still laugh if someone suggested one to me
Superrpgman2003 (7:07:37 PM): lol
Superrpgman2003 (7:08:38 PM): although ironically enough, I found a short(350 pages) novel that has to do with warfafe, but seems more about the character that sounds inteting
angamingrocklady (7:08:40 PM): Yanno, the easiest way to avoid recommendations that just wont work is to be slightly specific about genres, so you upfront so nothing military related
Superrpgman2003 (7:09:12 PM): Yeah, good point.
angamingrocklady (7:09:23 PM): Yeah but if the majority of military work doesn't interest you, it's still easier to say it's not an option off the bat
Superrpgman2003 (7:09:24 PM): not sure what else I could say to avoid though
angamingrocklady (7:10:33 PM): You know what genres you want to avoid, you already know many genres involving realism aren't your style. That narrows things down quite a bit, so saying anything based in realism is out works
angamingrocklady (7:11:13 PM): Unless you get a wanker who wants to argue on the meaning of realism, then you can just ignore them:p
Superrpgman2003 (7:12:19 PM): lol
angamingrocklady (7:12:48 PM): Really I think it seems easier to say only the genres you want and if need be mention a genre you're not if there could be overlap (like a fantasy setting military style)
Superrpgman2003 (7:13:04 PM): Very small(and YET VERY ACTIVE) forum. Not a single unlikable person there, and plenty of funny and supportive ones
angamingrocklady (7:14:15 PM): But you explained part of the issue earlier that needs to be mentioned off the bat too, you need a story that focuses mostly around a few characters and doesn't introduce too many at any point because you wont be able to keep up
Superrpgman2003 (7:17:02 PM): It's a matter of too many main characters focused on at once(and constantly)
Superrpgman2003 (7:17:17 PM): and that's gotta be something that happens in warfare
angamingrocklady (7:18:02 PM): That is the same concept though, you can be telling me if the scene instead was a party and 20 people were mentioned you'd be able to keep up, considering said party was a few hrs long for example
angamingrocklady (7:18:10 PM): can't be telling me
angamingrocklady (7:18:42 PM): Few hrs real time, so story time it'd be moving at a brisk pace
Superrpgman2003 (7:19:07 PM): how many pages would a few hours be? :p
angamingrocklady (7:19:42 PM): I said story time so brisk pace means 20-30, not what would take a real person a few hrs to read:p
Superrpgman2003 (7:19:56 PM): lol
Superrpgman2003 (7:20:10 PM): So an hour? yeah, a bit intimidating
Superrpgman2003 (7:20:41 PM): but what book has 20 main characters?
angamingrocklady (7:21:24 PM): That is my point, any given scene where there are a lot of players suddenly involved and it's not over in five seconds could be indimitating.....20 was a number to exaggerate the point, 10 then:p And I said a party, so the point for that example would be a large gathering
Superrpgman2003 (7:22:11 PM): and actually, if it's a party, I'm probably gonna glaze over anyways :p
angamingrocklady (7:22:13 PM): I never said main characters, I said players, so names you'd need to remember for a time relevant to the event
Superrpgman2003 (7:22:35 PM): well I said main characters, if it's players, I don't mind.
angamingrocklady (7:23:12 PM): What story has 7-10 main characters? Because you mentioned being able to handle 5 and I haven't come across many books with more than that amount of proper main characters
angamingrocklady (7:24:01 PM): I'm suspecting you're confusing main characters a bit for what would be considering supporting charactrs in a movie for example
Superrpgman2003 (7:24:15 PM): Game of thrones probably has around 15
Superrpgman2003 (7:24:44 PM): and yeah, I mean main characters, not supporting cast
angamingrocklady (7:25:22 PM): Well, I suspect our opinions of that differ a bit, with the X-Men for example I saw a lot of those characters as supporting not main
angamingrocklady (7:26:00 PM): Cyclops wasn't a main, his story wasn't barely fleshed out nor was he in it a lot, the same with Storm and various other charactrs
angamingrocklady (7:26:35 PM): And yeah not comics here, movies:p
Superrpgman2003 (7:26:45 PM): brb
Superrpgman2003 (7:31:32 PM): nsvk
Superrpgman2003 (7:31:40 PM): back
Superrpgman2003 (7:32:01 PM): and it's different when i have visuals to help
Superrpgman2003 (7:33:33 PM): And I think that the real problem is that I have a hard time imagining a big battle in my head.
Superrpgman2003 (7:38:24 PM): Althought I'll say this, one of the reasons that I don't like the x-men(in comics or otherwise) is that there's too many BORING characters :p
angamingrocklady (7:39:49 PM): It was just an example, that we see the idea of whom some peoples roles are differently
Superrpgman2003 (7:40:22 PM): I know, hence the :p at the end.

.
 

Boreas

Journeyed there and back again
Staff member
That conversation was fun to read. Yeah, if you'd just said that you don't like military engagements, then I would have understood. The main point being that all "soldiers are warriors, but not all warriors are soldiers." I think if your concern is a large cast of characters in a military novel, then your worries are a somewhat unfounded. There are plenty of genre-military novels that only feature a handful of major characters with just one or two being the main ones, and where the action is from a narrow perspective rather than trying to give a broader overview.
I said story time so brisk pace means 20-30, not what would take a real person a few hrs to read
I knew it was inhuman to be able to read as fast as you do. Cyborg or alien?
 

Aliphera

Listens to The Unbeliever whine about life
Hi Aliphera, I think my taste in fantasy might be similiar to yours. So here is some books I recommend for you:

The shadow of itself - James Islington
The author was inspired by Sanderson and Rothfuss and started writing his own series. It's a great first debut which is as good as Blood Song and almost as good as Sanderson and Rothfuss. The story is harder to predict and more complex than the previously named authors, but his world building isn't as good. But I would place this book in my top 5 ever read. I listened to the audiobook, in two days. spending almost every waking hour doing it, for me it was that "hooking".

Warbreaker & Elantris - Brandon Sanders
You might have read these, but if you haven't give them a try. Whilst not as good as the Stormlight Archive, I enjoyed these more than the Mistborn books.

The way of shadows - Brent Weeks
Given that you have read Lightbringer series you might have read this. If not, give it a try. Personally I liked this series better.

Also if you haven't read Robert Jordan, give it a try. It's epic.
Thank you for the recommendations! I have, in fact, read all of them except the first one so I'll check that one out :)
 

MorteTorment

Hired Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune
That conversation was fun to read. Yeah, if you'd just said that you don't like military engagements, then I would have understood. The main point being that all "soldiers are warriors, but not all warriors are soldiers." I think if your concern is a large cast of characters in a military novel, then your worries are a somewhat unfounded. There are plenty of genre-military novels that only feature a handful of major characters with just one or two being the main ones, and where the action is from a narrow perspective rather than trying to give a broader overview.

I knew it was inhuman to be able to read as fast as you do. Cyborg or alien?
Damn, my best friend gave me away. I'm both actually :p
 

beamer13

Possibly a Darkfriend
I really need help... lol

What I like... Tolkien salvatore eddings jordan goodkind... I used to play d&d... I prefer stories that include non human creatures.. magic of some sort... I have read game of thrones and covenant and ambercrombie stuff...

What I don't like... not a sci fi fan... I want swords and magic not guns...

Prefer series over stand alo... enjoy the old dragonlance stuff... anything good vs evil... I have been looking at lists until my head spins the descriptions just don't seem to help me.

Help???and thanks!
 

TomTB

Super Moderator
Staff member
I really need help... lol

What I like... Tolkien salvatore eddings jordan goodkind... I used to play d&d... I prefer stories that include non human creatures.. magic of some sort... I have read game of thrones and covenant and ambercrombie stuff...

What I don't like... not a sci fi fan... I want swords and magic not guns...

Prefer series over stand alo... enjoy the old dragonlance stuff... anything good vs evil... I have been looking at lists until my head spins the descriptions just don't seem to help me.

Help???and thanks!
Seems to me that you're probably ready to take on Malazan. I'd never recommend to a fantasy newbie, but you seem well read in the genre. The only thing it might be lacking is the whole 'good vs evil' thing - there are opposing sides throughout the story, it's just a tad tricky trying to work out who is good and who is evil (it's not really that sort of book - most characters (of which there are hundreds) sit somewhere in between).
 

ofer

Journeyed there and back again
I really need help... lol

What I like... Tolkien salvatore eddings jordan goodkind... I used to play d&d... I prefer stories that include non human creatures.. magic of some sort... I have read game of thrones and covenant and ambercrombie stuff...

What I don't like... not a sci fi fan... I want swords and magic not guns...

Prefer series over stand alo... enjoy the old dragonlance stuff... anything good vs evil... I have been looking at lists until my head spins the descriptions just don't seem to help me.

Help???and thanks!
Let's see:
1. Good Vs. evil
2. With Non-Humans
3. With magic and swords
4. Prefer series

Computing...

Found 7 matches:
1. Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series by Tad Williams
2. Shadowmarch series, also by Tad Williams
3. Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson
4. Stormlight Archives series, also by Brandon Sanderson. Note: Series is not finished yet.
5. Kingkiller Chronicles by Patrick Rothfuss. Note: Series is not finished yet.
6. Swan's War trilogy by Sean Russell
7. Riddlemaster of Hed trilogy by Patricia McKillip.
 

Fantam

Journeyed there and back again
I prefer stories that include non human creatures.. magic of some sort... I want swords and magic not guns... Prefer series over stand alo...anything good vs evil...
I have a couple more suggestions to add to those already offered :

The Red Knight, 1st book of The Traitor Son Cycle by Miles Cameron.

Cephrael's Hand by Melissa McPhail, 1st book of A Pattern of Shadow and Light.

I think that both (unfinished) series include all of your preferences, although I sometimes found the distinction between good vs. evil to be uncertain. Enjoyed reading both of these.
 

Marrune

Will likely be killed by a Lannister soon
Between The Farseer trilogy and the Malazan Book of the Fallen series, what do you think is more suited for someone who has a preference for long, rather dark/gritty books involving things along the lines of single combat, wars, questionable/unethical choices and grey characters?

The longest series I have read so far is ASoIaF but I am more willing to delve into a...was it 10 books(?)...series, if it is worthwhile. I also heard there was a specific order the Malazan books should be read in, hope someone could enlighten me~
Then again, I don't think I've read any strictly negative opinions on The Farseer trilogy yet and it does sound rather intriguing too.

Maybe you guys can make my decision a little easier :)
Other suggestions are welcome as well, of course!
 

Sneaky Burrito

Crazy Cat Lady
Staff member
Between The Farseer trilogy and the Malazan Book of the Fallen series, what do you think is more suited for someone who has a preference for long, rather dark/gritty books involving things along the lines of single combat, wars, questionable/unethical choices and grey characters?
Malazan.
 

Alucard

In the name of the Pizza Lord. Charge!
Staff member
Between The Farseer trilogy and the Malazan Book of the Fallen series, what do you think is more suited for someone who has a preference for long, rather dark/gritty books involving things along the lines of single combat, wars, questionable/unethical choices and grey characters?
Malazan for sure. Farseer doesn't even come into play if you want what I underlined. First three Farseer books (I've read first two) are imo more of a classical, traditional fantasy. First two books sit squarely in coming of age sub genre. Malazan is beyond that.


was it 10 books(?)...series
Well...yes and no really.
http://pastebin.com/3XN7vrwr
If you take away Bauchelain and Korbal Broach 5 novellas, that still leaves you with 20 books. Granted 10 Erikson's books are the core of the show, but they are not all.
For reading order click on the link. I got it from Malazan wiki.
to read both authors
http://malazan.wikia.com/wiki/Sugge..._authors_concurrently_in_order_of_publication
to read only the core series. go with published order.
http://malazan.wikia.com/wiki/Sugge...of_the_Fallen_-_Main_series_by_Steven_Erikson

Or if you wanna get hardcore about it (something I'm doing lol) go with this:
Ultimate reading order suggested by members of the Malazan Empire Forum
Links lead to Malazan wiki.



 

Silvion Night

Sir Readalot
Staff member
Between The Farseer trilogy and the Malazan Book of the Fallen series, what do you think is more suited for someone who has a preference for long, rather dark/gritty books involving things along the lines of single combat, wars, questionable/unethical choices and grey characters?

The longest series I have read so far is ASoIaF but I am more willing to delve into a...was it 10 books(?)...series, if it is worthwhile. I also heard there was a specific order the Malazan books should be read in, hope someone could enlighten me~
Then again, I don't think I've read any strictly negative opinions on The Farseer trilogy yet and it does sound rather intriguing too.

Maybe you guys can make my decision a little easier :)
Other suggestions are welcome as well, of course!
Malazan, for the reasons Alucard stated. In my opinion it's the best fantasy series, after ASOIAF.
 

Marrune

Will likely be killed by a Lannister soon
I'm actually a little surprised how one-sided it is for Malazan, though also quite happy the series seems to match my preferences so well. I think I'll start Gardens of the Moon soon, just not quite finished with Half the World yet.

Thank you for the information on the series and on the reading order Alucard, I would have replied to you but my post count hasn't exceeded 4 yet...either way, I think I shall trust the knowledge of the Malazan Empire Forum members and get hardcore about it right off the bat with your suggested order hehe~
Looking forward to it!
 

Silvion Night

Sir Readalot
Staff member
I'm actually a little surprised how one-sided it is for Malazan, though also quite happy the series seems to match my preferences so well. I think I'll start Gardens of the Moon soon, just not quite finished with Half the World yet.

Thank you for the information on the series and on the reading order Alucard, I would have replied to you but my post count hasn't exceeded 4 yet...either way, I think I shall trust the knowledge of the Malazan Empire Forum members and get hardcore about it right off the bat with your suggested order hehe~
Looking forward to it!
Gardens of the Moon is considered the lesser book in the entire series. Keep that in mind if you feel that the series doesn't live up to the hype. By the end of book 2 I was hooked (and many others with me).
 

TomTB

Super Moderator
Staff member
Gardens of the Moon is considered the lesser book in the entire series. Keep that in mind if you feel that the series doesn't live up to the hype. By the end of book 2 I was hooked (and many others with me).
Not sure I agree with this. GoTM got me well and truly hooked, then Deadhouse Gates almost unhooked me. There are so many differing opinions on which are the better / stronger / weaker / worse books in the series ...
 

Silvion Night

Sir Readalot
Staff member
Not sure I agree with this. GoTM got me well and truly hooked, then Deadhouse Gates almost unhooked me. There are so many differing opinions on which are the better / stronger / weaker / worse books in the series ...
I haven't never ever come across such a deviant opinion before, Tom. :p

In all seriousness, I thought GoTM was generally (albeit not universally) considered the weakest installment in the series. But I stand corrected.
 

Fantam

Journeyed there and back again
The other good thing about the Malazan books, is that you can then discuss the ones which you have read in the Book Club Forum.

I need to get back into reading them, so I can do that ! :) Also, I am with Tom, I liked GoTM too. :joyful: