Let's face it: GRRM is never going to finish aSoIaF

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Silvion Night, Jul 11, 2017.

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George Martin is never going to finish aSoIaF

  1. Agree

    13 vote(s)
    81.3%
  2. Disagree

    2 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. I honestly thought he died years ago

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. ExTended

    ExTended Hired Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune

    I was actually leaning toward the common fantasy take on what is defining a person as a bastard. Even so - it is more on the note of being perturbed by someone's contrary actions than about anything else.

    I live in the Balkans too and in my country we don't really have a social concept for what a bastard is, because it would be too rude to call on someone about it. It could be used to call someone who's parents weren't married at the time of his/her birth( but if the father aknowedges the child or is taking care of it after it's born, people wouldn't use the word toward the child). The more common use would be about describing a child who doesn't know who his father is. But the word "fatherless" is more commonly used for that, since it's more descriptive of someone's situation without the inherit rudeness of the word bastard.

    I'd say the only way( at least in my country) you'd encounter the word bastard used to describe a child is if the mother( at the time of conceiving the child) is married or lives or is in relationship with Man A, but Man A has had nothing to do with the actual conceiving of said child, i.e. the mother was unfaithful and tried to hide the fact. Even so, it's directed more toward describing the immoral act done by the mother rather than for insulting the child that had nothing to do with how it was conceived. It could also apply to a situation where a father like Ned brings a child like John into his home, when it's obvious that John was conceived after Ned had begun his relationship with Catelyn, etc.

    We are mostly using the word to lovingly or not pointing to unconventional behavior, or cheekiness, or arrogance. And also as a slang substituting "bro", but this is usually found through the younger demographics, since it has somewhat childish/immature ring to it when it's used in that regard, because it's pronounced with different cadence( similar to the "wazaaaaa" thing from the commercial).
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  2. Alucard

    Alucard In the name of the Pizza Lord. Charge! Staff Member

    Yup, same thing here. In Bulgarian is it anything like kopile/копиле in BCS? (Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian)

    What is the word for that? I'm curious if it's the same for B/C/S or if we have similar concepts. Bulgarian is pretty similar to BCS anyway and vice versa.
    Slight correction, it's Jon actually.
     
  3. ExTended

    ExTended Hired Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune

    Yeah, almost the same - it's 'kopele/копеле', so only one letter difference. We use 'kopile' too, when we want to make sure the other person knows the word is being used in jest.

    I am not sure if we have a word for word equivalent for "fatherless". The Bulgarian version is 'без баща', which literally translates into "Without a father". Probably the Russian variant of it would be closer to your BCS, since it's 'без отца' - and that's likely the more common slavic word for father.

    Thanks! The funny thing is somewhere in my mind I knew that...
     
  4. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater Journeyed there and back again

    Political correctness. You can outthink some undergrad profs but I never saw anyone win a battle with a law school prof. (Adjuncts excluded).

    Constitutional Law class. Female prof talking about "illigitimates" This female student (previously a stripper) blurts out "what exactly is an ILLIGITIMATE?? (PC term is children born out of wedlock) and the prof without missing a beat says "young lady if you don't know you need to have a talk with your mother when you get home". Class was LMAO. Maybe you had to be there.

    What kind of a world do we live in that we judge children and adults by their parentage? It was much worse earlier but still. And who is to say that the unwed parents (whether together or not) are not some of the better parents around??
     
  5. Alucard

    Alucard In the name of the Pizza Lord. Charge! Staff Member

    Oh sorry my bad then. I thought you had one word for it. 'Baša' is not something I have ever heard of here. We have so many words that are used for a father (I'm gonna write them in Cyrillic so you get them better):
    Oтaц, тата (most common), ћале, стари, матори, ћаћа, бабо (ottoman influence right there) and probably more but I cant remember now.

    Yup it's 'без оца' in BCS because it's in genitive. 'Oтaц' is nominative.

    Sorry for off railing the thread, I'm just fascinated by Slavic languages.
     
  6. Andrew.J

    Andrew.J Hired Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune

    I'm cautiously optimistic. At least for the Winds of Winter. A Dream of Spring, though, isn't likely to materialise.

    ASoIaF holds a special place for me, because it's the series that got me back into reading. And A Dance with Dragons was the first novel I've read in English (and I thought it was great - nothing beats reading in another language for the first few times). It's been only two years since I've finished the series, so I'm not yet weary of waiting. :)

    I guess we'll see how it all pans out eventually.
     
  7. ExTended

    ExTended Hired Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune

    Отац is very close to a word we are using to refer to church priests - it's Отец in Bulgarian, similar to the English use of Father. The inherit meaning it bears is that of father, but more of a religious father.

    Тата is very similar to what we have too. Our variant is 'Татко' and it can be used as "This is my father" and as "Father, how are you?"( we also use 'тате' for that, usually татко is a bit more formal and is used to refer to more elderly parents, but both are correct). And if I want to ask my mother "Have you spoken with dad recently", I'd probably use тати. When I say тати, it's usually more neutrally. However, I have found with my previous girlfriends is that when they use the same word, they are using is as equivalent of "daddy" instead of "dad", because they say it with softer cadence and buckets more fondness. I as a man cannot use it in that way, because it would sound like I am jesting - I cannot explain it exactly, but girls can get away with it, maybe because their is the social understanding that their "daddy" will kick your ass if you don't behave, so it's OK for them to laid the word with child-like fondness.

    "Стари" we don't use with this meaning. In Bulgarian it literally means "old" referring to multiple people or objects. The closest you'd get is if someone uses the word to refer to his parents, but it's usually teenage people and above, maybe to about mid-twenties that would use that, because it has a slight slang-like feel to it. It's more commonly used as a way of referring to old and wise people, as in the Elders in The Wheel of Time, which are translated as Старей/Стареи. And if a documentary channel refers to the elder of an African tribe, it would probably be using the word Старейшина.

    As for бабо - we use that too, but with a different meaning. In modern Turkish 'baba' is for "father", but in Bulgarian we use баба to say "grandmother". I am not sure if we are influenced by the Russian бабушка, or the Russians were influenced by our language, but we share that word with them. Bulgarians as a nation are a mixture of conquering Proto-Bulgarians( nomadic tribes from the Russian steppes in Asia) and local Balkan's Slavic and Thracian tribes, so it's somewhat of a muddle trying to decide about the different influences.

    Sorry for hijacking the thread too.
     
  8. afa

    afa Journeyed there and back again

    Agreed. GRRM keeps claiming that finishing the series is his first priority, but it's clearly not. I mean, I get that he has things on his plate, but Jesus man! He's written only 2 books in 17 years!

    Well put. And I would encourage all ASoIaF fans to adopt the same attitude. Rather than constantly pestering him for updates, people need to take the exact opposite approach and decide, "Screw it." Who knows, maybe apathy will work where adoration didn't?

    That's a very interesting take. He's taking so long with the books, that the show becomes the canon. Regardless of whenever he finished the series. Interesting. I can imagine the hilarious scenario where GRRM puts out the books, and people read it and go, "But that's not how it was in the show!" The exact opposite of the usual trend with these things.

    The show is actually not bad. Sure, there are plenty of differences. But considering GRRM's inability to untangle the web he's weaved, and the fact that the show is actually progressing, maybe they're making changes is not a bad thing...

    Interesting. I would probably say that it's still worth a read. It's not so much that ASoIaF is a great 'series.' After all, Book 4 was pretty average, and Book 5 was actually bad. So is 60% of the series being good enough for ASoIaF to be called a good series on the whole? I don't know. But those 3 books... they were really good.

    Yeah, Rothfuss is actually more annoying. At least GRRM has some excuses. The show took up a lot of his time, plus appearances at conventions and travelling the world and what not. And now this new show that he will apparently work on with HBO. What the fuck is Rothfuss's excuse? What is he doing if not writing the book?? Grooming his beard? And to make matters worse - and yes, I've said this many times before - he said the trilogy was already complete a decade ago!

    Ditto. Same for Abercrombie, who isn't quite as prolific but writes at a decent enough pace. And even Mark Lawrence, whose books I don't love, but he consistently puts out a book every year. Or even Jim Butcher, who's written 15 Dresden books in 16 years.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Nuomer1

    Nuomer1 Ran bridges next to Kaladin

    I begin to suspect that GRRM is a member of that class of creative types whose creativity only works when they are hungry. Since, with even moderate care, he will have taken enough dosh for the TV series that he will never need to sit in front of a keyboard again, we might as well assume there will be no further works.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Jakyro

    Jakyro Ran bridges next to Kaladin

    I’ve only seen the first season of the tv show and I really loved it. I started the books afterwards and decided to continue the books before watching the whole show. I finished them about 2-3 years ago and I’ve been looking out for Winds of Winter since then. To some extent I still look out for it, but I’m not eagerly anticipating it anymore. If it comes out at a certain moment, I’ll eventually buy it and I’ll read it at some point, but if it doesn’t come out anymore I’m fine with that as well.

    For now I’m settled with the tv show. I’m planning on watching the whole series next year so I can immediately pick in with season 8. The tv show is my main concern now, and if the books are finished, all the better, if not ... fine as well
     
  11. Bill Door

    Bill Door Listens to The Unbeliever whine about life

    I think he'll finish it, but it's not that big of deal to me if he doesn't. I read so much fantasy that I'm not going to get hung up on one series...especially not a series that has been falling in quality for some time now. Like someone said...when he changed what was originally a trilogy into something bigger he pretty much screwed up what he had going. Book 5 is 1100 page novel where almost nothing of note happens.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. afa

    afa Journeyed there and back again

    The thing is, a part of me kind of sympathises with GRRM.

    The guy didn't just start writing a few years ago. He's been writing since the 70s. He's produced a bunch of stuff, and after decades of working on his craft, he finally reached a position of fame and wealth that he could afford to relax. So a part of me understands; the guy is enjoying the fruits of 40 years of labor. I just wish he would be upfront about it. "I've been writing for 4 decades, and am only now finally enjoying life. So I'm going to continue enjoying life, and write the books whenever I feel like it." Not that his fans would like that, of course, but at least people will stop waiting on him and speculating when the next book will be.

    Rothfuss, to me, is worse. Unlike GRRM, Rothfuss doesn't have the "I've been working for 4 decades," excuse. The guy has written precisely 2 novels in his career. Two. And a novella. That's it. What the hell is his excuse?
     
  13. Silvion Night

    Silvion Night Sir Readalot Staff Member

    Maybe he is grooming his beard? Who knows. As someone already mentioned, Rothfuss claimed to have the trilogy finished when book 1 was published and that the only thing left to do was polishing. 10 years of polishing. :hilarious:
     
  14. Maark Abbott

    Maark Abbott Journeyed there and back again

    I feel like there's an applicable saying here
     
  15. Nuomer1

    Nuomer1 Ran bridges next to Kaladin

    I see no evidence.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  16. Alucard

    Alucard In the name of the Pizza Lord. Charge! Staff Member

    Yeah that's what it means, old. We use it a lot in Bosnia. 'Стари' for dad, and 'Старa' for mum.
    That's not even the most confusing thing. In Sarajevo, people use 'мама' for mother and 'мајка' for grandmother, when the original meaning is mother.
    Those two words do not share the same origin. Because we basically butchered every ottoman word that we borrowed and adapted it to our tongue so it does sound different to how the Turks use it.
    However, 'баба' is russian/slavic, from бабушка and we use it for grandma, although it can have a negative meaning, basically meaning 'old hag'. We usually use much softer 'бака' for grandmother or 'нана'/'нена' in Bosnia.
    Curiously in Japanese 'баба' is also 'old hag'.

    Heh, there was no 'local Balkan Slavic' before Slavic migration to Balkan in 6th century. In our case ex Yugoslavia was inhabited since paleolithic era. Illyrians lived here as a distinct culture from before 8th century BC. In iron age, so around 4/5th century BC, Celts invaded. Then came Romans in 3rd century BC. Then came Slavs in 6th century. Then Ottomans in 15th, then Austro-Hungarians in 19th.
    They did some dna research in these parts for 6 years and we are basically majority Illyrian (in Bosnia and Croatia especially) and then a mix of slavic, celtic and even germanic genes.
    Balkan has been a cross-road for all kinds of European tribes until late middle ages, and people of course mixed.





    He has money. He doesn't need to apply himself so hard anymore.
    Also some creative folks develop a sort of neurosis when it's time to finish an art piece. Because then it's over and it's a loss in a sense. It's much safer to cuddle it and polish it and delude yourself that it needs more work. ( I speak from my personal experience lol).
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  17. S. K. Inkslinger

    S. K. Inkslinger Will likely be killed by a Lannister soon

    I agree, with all the convoluted plot lines and ever-growing cast of new characters, I doubt we'll ever see even The Winds of Witner being released, much less the ASOIF series.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Andrew.J

    Andrew.J Hired Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune

    I'm optimistic about Winds of Winter. He must've written something in those years. :rolleyes:

    A Dream of Spring, though, is likely to never be realised.
     
  19. S. K. Inkslinger

    S. K. Inkslinger Will likely be killed by a Lannister soon

    Probably because it's 'the dream'. Lol.

    With that terrible pun I will excuse myself. :p
     
  20. Jakyro

    Jakyro Ran bridges next to Kaladin

    Winds of Winter should be released this year ... but GRRM also announced the release the past two years :p

    I've learned not to trust his announcements / predictions ;)
     

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