Pat Rothfuss' The Kingkiller Chronicle [spoilers] - the rambling review of an undecided reader

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Silvion Night, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. Rebelliott

    Rebelliott Stood on the wall with Druss

    I just can't wait for Brad Pitt to turn up in book 3 and shout "what's in the BOX!?"

    Although we already know what's in the box ;)

    P.s great review Silvion. I love the KKC but still agree with your points and enjoyed the humour of your posts :D
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  2. ExTended

    ExTended Hired Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune

    I couldn't agree less about Kote being an unreliable narrator. As the character says - you have to be a liar to tell a story the right way, which is more or less true, from the POV of the storyteller. But while there is probably a fair amount of ommited information, it's done in a way in which it naturally have happened - Kvothe didn't have the memories of Kote when he was living his story, so it's only understandable that Kote is keeping strictly to Kvothe's level of understanding of the world in any given point of his retelling.

    He surely isn't telling us everything, but this isn't the same a lying.

    As for how the past and present stories could interwine... I think that there won't be a magnificent plot in the end... as far as we know, it's a tragedy story with very little chance to become anything else for one book.

    For me the whole story is about the folly of youth and the fact that sometimes other people pay for our mistakes, or in the cases where we are unable to protect them, even though we've thought we would be able to. This is just my take on it, but sometimes I get the feeling that Kote's tone toward some of his closest people in the past is one of fond rememberance, not because he is forced into hiding, but because they are dead. And if that's the case, there is a big chance of him being around unbale to help or prevent it and feeling extremely guilty about him.

    That's one of the main reasons I don't get that annoyed at Kvothe having some Mary Sue qualities, because for me, as of now, the story is about a guy who is predispositioned to be skilled in many things, but is bound to realize that the world is bigger than one man, and that's a very real story hidden in the pages of a very fictional book.
  3. Darwin

    Darwin Journeyed there and back again

    We know that his perspective skews the story. Bast even pointed out that Kvothe's description of Denna was not truly objective. I still think he's probably a reliable narrator in the sense that he's not just making things up. I think this for one reason only: this isn't Abercrombie. I don't think Rothfuss wants to shatter our image of Kvothe in book 3 with some revelation about how he's been lying.
  4. rudyjuly2

    rudyjuly2 A Poet of the Khaiem

    I agree with this. I think a narrator may embellish or not always be objective but I don't think it's a flat out lie or totally off base. And I love the writing and characters so much some of the issues don't bug me. Rothfuss can get long winded and I think his second book could have been 200 pages shorter (Felurian and Denna scenes can be shrunk imo) but I will still buy book 3 day one.
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  5. Silvion Night

    Silvion Night Sir Readalot Staff Member

    I'll go read book 3 as soon as it is released. Might be a cool present for when I hit retirement age.
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  6. jo zebedee

    jo zebedee Journeyed there and back again

    I disagree. I think a lot of the fundamentals are in place and a resolution is in sight. Certainly, with my writer's head on, given the word count Pat will work within, I could think of ways to wrap up the mysteries presented.
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  7. Rebelliott

    Rebelliott Stood on the wall with Druss

    From the most recent interviews I've read the third book will indeed end Kvothe's story - the next trilogy is supposed to be set in the same world but have nothing to do with Kvothe.
  8. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater Journeyed there and back again

    I believe he has already completed it. It is extremely difficult for me to see how he accomplished it. The pacing must surely pickup because not only does he need to finish his third day of tbe telling but I would hope there is something that will happen in the present. It seems like it should therefore be a tetralogy. But doesn't he claim it's pretty much done and in the editing stage? Maybe that's why it took him so bloody long to write tbe darn thing. MAYBE it is something like Memory Sorrow and Thorn where the ebook 3rd installment is 3 books but the printed version is in 4 books because it is to "fat"?
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  9. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater Journeyed there and back again

    IIRC when book seven of the Dark Tower was published it was maybe $24. I got it for around $16 at Walmart but that was ridiculous. But I wanted it so much that I paid it. It cannot possibly be over $15 for an ebook could it? Regardless, as much as I'm feening for it I'm not paying the (fill in expletive) more than $16 as a reward for taking 5 years to complete it. :mad:Well...I think I'm not... no really...Ok $ more than $20.

    True enough Rothfuss is not my beotch but I'll be damned if I will buy another series by him until it is completed. Also, I think it was a BS money grab for him to write Auri's story before completing the trilogy. THAT I have not read. Maybe I have no right to be ticked but that's how I feel. I was a tad lucky. I started the series after 2 books were out so I've waited a year or two less than some. Seriously, Jordan putzed around so much in books 7-10 that the last books were published posthumously. I wonder how many readers kicked the bucket not knowing how this one ends? Although when you're :dead: it probably doesn't matter. If it DOES I suppose your ghost caan look over someones shoulder.. :wideyed: if there's nothing better to can only listen to an :angelic: playing the harp for so long. Alternatively maybe it matters but you'll be otherwise engaged :troll:
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  10. Darwin

    Darwin Journeyed there and back again

    I like his books well enough to read them as they come out, even if it would certainly be more enjoyable to read a complete trilogy over the course of a few years rather than a couple of decades.

    The problem for me is the pacing. Let's say Kvothe wraps up all the loose ends in the story he's telling. That still leaves us with Kote still pathetic and all? of the Chandrian still alive. It would be neat if there were a book 1 Blood Song-type ending, perhaps where Kote finally unlocks his old powers and has a quick and satisfying engagement with the Chandrian. That seems unlikely to me, though.
  11. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater Journeyed there and back again

    I guess the ending must be one of 5:

    1. Happy
    2. Bittersweet leaning toward happy
    3. Bittersweet
    4. Bittersweet but leaning toward sad
    5. Sad/tragic

    I think it will end bittersweet (35% chance) I think the best Kvothe can hope for is bittersweet leaning toward happy (25% chance) and the worst is bittersweet leaning toward sad (25%). I will be very suprised if it is sad/tragic (10% chance) and I think we would all fall over from shock if it were happy (5%. Chance).
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  12. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater Journeyed there and back again

    Agreed on the pacing.

    I see your little mood guy has a problem.

    If ur married or have a g/f (or both) I hope u bought flowers or candy yesterday (Valentines Day) :D
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  13. Lavanda

    Lavanda A Muggle

    Hi. I agree with the review, though I still have 200 pages left to finish A Wise Man's Fear.

    I liked the Name of the Wind much more. Still, I simply can't feel identified with Kvothe. I don't like him or suffer for him anymore. I hope Kote is pretending to be like that, but I don't think he's lying. It strikes me, though, that he can remember so many details of things. Only liers do. He even describes his sex adventures in full detail for those who may read his memories (xD). I read the books in English, which is not my home language, so I wanted to ask you, guys, about a couple of things in case I misunderstood.

    First of all, I think Wise Man's could have been 500 pages shorter. But it is not, so I asked myself why, just yesterday. I thought Rothfuss may be actually trying to tell us something apart from the few hints we learn of the Chandrians and a few quotes we extract from the stories told. Here are the thoughts that crossed my mind.

    About the Tehlin church, is "tehlin" a close homophonic of "telling", coming from "tale"? I did notice some similarities between Tehlu's story and Jesus'. So, is Rothfuss saying the Christian Church is telling tales? Are then its soldiers maybe templars? Is it the Catholic Church? I think Vashet said that demons did not exist as they were told to boys to feel scared. This is something that only atheistics believe. I'm not sure if Rothfuss is trying ot critize christians or not (I don't care about his religion). But if that was the case, he's falling into presumptions that have lasted until today mostly because of fiction. For instace, there was a mistake in the translation of the Bible by Saint Hyeronimus in which Lucifer was believed to be the name of the devil. It was actually the name of planet Venus and it was corrected later. I know that the world of fiction still believes in demons and in the falling angel, and I'm aware not so many people even dig into this stuff any more, but demons are not physical in christianity. They're the evil inside everyone that tempts them to do wrong and to consume oneself.

    Also, how old is Kvothe when he has sex with all these ladies? Maybe I missed something, but wasn't he still 15 or 16 years old? I know maybe there weren't rules in this world to protec minors, but minors read these books nowadays in the real world. I don't want to sound like a nun, which I'm not, but don't you think that the novel encourages youngsters to practice sex just for fun and even with their teachers because "it's healthy"? There are a couple of sentences by Vashet I find really scary, apart from the fact that she repetedly calls barbarian those who think otherwise: "What you mean is that we have been sexual. The intimacy between a teacher and a student is greater by far than that." [...] "But we are not strange about our sex. We do not feel shame about it" (yet, they hide in the bushes). [...] "You, barbarians. I had forgotten how backward you are. My poet king was the same way. It took him a long, miserable time before he realized the truth of things: there is a great deal of difference between a penis and a heart." Using all those words together is not mere coincidence. Rothfuss is using words together that make the reader associate those barbarians who think like the poet king to end up miserable. He's saying that even if you are a minor you can have sex with your teacher and others, even if you don't love them. This is totally dogmatic and is directed stright to the reader using Kvothe. In my opinion, if Kvothe is actually an underage and I'm not mistaken, Vashet sounds like a pedophile. Now, I'm not saying Rothfuss intended it to sound that way. In fact, I want to think he did not edit the novel well enough, that he was trying to create a society ruled by women where a sexual revolution was never necessary, but I think he fails telling it. That's why, at this point, I cannot but to remember what the reviewer says about repeating once and again how great you are. Vashet is calling kvothe barbarian so many times..., and Kvothe himself, speaking in first person and making so many questions, the questions we all may ask, is clearly used to educate a naive reader, specially since Kvothe, who is their age and sooooo clever, accepts it.

    The sex scenes with Vashet would be ok if Kvothe realised he had been abused in this same novel. That would mean that even those who believe to be so clever are vulnerable to pedrators. But to make it effective, it should happen in this novel, not in the next. Maybe it does before the end (I honestly hope it does). I agree with the pacing problem of this trilogy.

    About Denna, I think her character's only function when running away is to, somehow, excuse Kvothe for being with other girls, as they are not a real couple yet. And so, she's despicable just because Kvoteh has to have sex later with a lot of girls to pass the time and recover from stress. I also agree her patron is the king and that she will die and so Kvothe will go mad because he should have gone with her but didn't...

    One last thing, did Rothfuss use Bruce Lee's water quote, changing it a bit, for real?
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  14. Silvion Night

    Silvion Night Sir Readalot Staff Member

    That's an interesting analysis and I never noticed it during my read-through.

    I don't think Rothfuss is trying to say anything with these scenes. Like in he chapters revolving around Ferulian, I think it is Rothfuss's own latent yearnings that come to the fore. It's a bit pubescent really and I see how the chapters with Vashet would indeed appeal to pubescent boys.
  15. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater Journeyed there and back again

    I do not recall him ever having sex or anything past a kiss or two. Who exactly was his partner and when. What did I miss (forget).??

    Anyhow, I think he was the same age as the girls he was hanging out with if not younger than them. I never got a sense Rothfuss was inappropriate in the least bit. Now Robert Jordan..
  16. rudyjuly2

    rudyjuly2 A Poet of the Khaiem

    No sex in Name of the Wind. Wise Man's Fear though was much different. Definitely rated R while Name of the Wind would have been PG13 imo.

    I thought I saw on Twitter that Rothfuss was in depression. I can only hope he gets help and gets healthy. I'm not sure when we'll ever see the third book.
  17. Sneaky Burrito

    Sneaky Burrito Crazy Cat Lady Staff Member

    Then you clearly did not read book 2. Or else blocked large parts of it from your memory (wish I could).
  18. Bierschneeman

    Bierschneeman Journeyed there and back again

    He had sex with a lot of woman.
    Most notably when he was training as sort of a monk fighter. He had sex with his waaaay older teacher and a few of his fellow students (possibly a couple years older?)

    He also had sex with the nymph for like 50 pages. God that one took forever.

    For some reason I seem to think he did with someone else, but maybe I'm reading into his desire rather than reality.
  19. Maark Abbott

    Maark Abbott Journeyed there and back again

    This is not improving my desire to read this book.
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  20. Silvion Night

    Silvion Night Sir Readalot Staff Member

    Believe Mark, as a fellow fan of the slog of slogs I just know you wouldn't like this one.

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