Star Wars Rogue One

TomTB

Super Moderator
Staff member
#1
Have you seen this and what did you think?

Me & the lads went out to watch it yesterday. I really liked it, full of action, some great little cameos from the original characters, some well placed little nods to the original trilogy (including some scenes taken straight from the early films if I'm not mistaken). All in all 9/10, and I'm not even a big Star Wars fan.
 

ReguIa

Journeyed there and back again
#2
Oh yes! First half of the movie felt like it didn't really connect with the rest of the films. But the second half was just amazing.
And that Vader scene at the end!:eek: The ''Vader horror scene'' as everyone is describing it
Maybe the best scene in all of Star Wars.
 

Anti_Quated

Journeyed there and back again
#3
Caught it the other day. I enjoyed it, but still felt that it got played a little safe. JEJ's Vader voice has seen better days, and the joke about
choking on aspirations
didn't make me laugh. I frowned, furrowed my brow, and felt disappointed. The man does not jest, and is bereft of humour utterly (understandable given the tragic trajectory of his life), however dark it may seem.

K2SO was a welcome nod to HK47 from KotOR; and as a comic foil worked reasonably well. Sassy wise-crack side-kick droids can go either way; this one at least had me in stitches. Jyn Erso, despite what I initially dreaded as an impending Mary Sue (like Rey), was much more grounded, realistic, and sufficiently developed as a character to enjoy in the lead role. I was concerned she would be some throwaway teen-angst pawn for Hollywood - instead, a reasonably likeable young woman with her own motivation, goals, and emotions that undertook a shit job with nothing to lose, and had quite a nice arc in terms of finding something to fight for, to believe in. The intimacy and urgency of the frontline combat scenes explored and delineated was awesome, something I think most Star Wars fans have desired for quite some time (even if it was still a bit tame for my standards). The most violent Star Wars flick to date, and even with mystic Asian Wing-Chun/Wu-Shu blind monk, exuded verisimilitude and made for a great flick. Except for one thing that irked me. Cassian Andor. I really liked the guy. I thought the goofy kid who starred once as Bon Jovi's shit-heel poverty-stricken apprentice in a D-rate vampire hunter outing turned out to have decent acting chops. The problem is with his character's moral relativity.

Or the lack of consistency I took with it. Cassian's moment to follow-through on being an absolutist revolutionary - to take out Galen Erso and adhere to his orders - and he flinches, and can't pull the trigger?!?!?! What is dis Bizenya?!?!. Saw Gerrerra's squiddy torture device while interesting was overshadowed by the man's "extremist" drive to get information at any cost - this sort of ruthlessness was what I'd hoped for from Captain Andor, which, in his pivotal moment, fell through. So all his talk of the regrettable, soul-staining deeds he and his squad had done to serve the Rebellion... felt a little short. After acing the pro-Rebel informant at the start to ensure a smooth getaway, I found it incongruent that he would balk at having to snipe a known Imperial science officer and the guy responsible for the Death Star. Remember his orders? And the fact that, reluctant participant or not, Galen Erso represented (as far as Cassian knew) the single biggest operationally viable target to strike at and theoretically impair or deleteriously impact the Empire's Death Star program. And he couldn't follow through.

If he HAD done so, it would have changed Star Wars for me in such a profound way, capturing the gritty ambivalence of the quintessential scoundrels of the Star Wars universe and the skullduggery that, onec upon a time in a galaxy far, far away, was rthe introductory cornerstone of establishing how much of a bad c**t Han Solo was. Smoking Greedo - because Han shot first. I wanted to see the conflict in this guy, and they played it straight at first quite well - the mission is the priority, end-justifies-the-means, etc. Jyn's rebuke about Andor's qualities parallel to that of a Stormtrooper were, I think, misplaced - easy to argue from a moral standpoint, but she's still at enough of a remove from the realities of fighting the Empire based on the info presented to ovelrook the harsh necessities and practicalities that warfare sometimes requires. Yes, she saw her mother gunned down and her father whisked off by Capey Mendelson (who was great!), and spent years as a guerilla fighter with the 'extremist' Saw Gerrera, but she doesn't seem to have had to undertake any of the questionable or humanity draining activities that Andor later mentions as hoping to have been 'worth it'. So, in that context, I thought her rebuke somewhat naive. There's also probably some minor conflating of the hispanic rebel fighter with South American politics (Castro and Guevara), which would have been an equally fascinating rabbit to chase down a hole, but there's only so many permissible opportunities for narrative exploration in a two hour film.

I also question, as aforementioned, how a hardened rebel, who had been fighting since he was 6*, can suddenly have an attack of conscience over following his orders to take out the guy that designed the Death Star. Andor killed the nervous but helpful informant just for a smooth getaway, but Hannibal Lecter/One-Eye/Le Chifre gets a pass because 'they made me do it'. Myth of the good Nazi? A very interesting perspective, if that's what the allusion is.

*Of considerable intrigue, for my part, was this 6 year-old rebel fighter nod. An emotive line and causal attribution for Cassian's weltenschauung, but consider the possibility - that the Rebellion uses, or has used in the past, child soldiers - this is never noted anywhere else in the films (excepting the 'younglings' who are training at the Jedi temple in Coruscant but presumably never get shipped to an operational theatre until they're at least old enough to be whiny, rape-eyed teens like Anakin). Even the Empire doesn't use child stormtroopers, and from the prequels we know how harsh witnessing combat is to a child (when Boba sees his dad decapitated, or Anakin's dark side power-up through the Jedi temple in Episode III). One thing to kill innocent civilians (children presumably included) from the Empire's perspective, but to actively enlist them?....

So, in short, the Rebels wanted to mend fences with the 'extremist' Saw Gerrerra, use their soldiers to assassinate, at times, potentially innocent people (or actually innocent collaborators/loose ends like Andor's informant), and have even theoretically utilised child soldiers. Why are they the good guys again? A very grey Star Wars indeed, even if it resolved in a more predictably Star Wars way. I note also that the urban warfare on Jedha was all too reminiscent, likely a deliberate meditation or reflection upon the conflicts in the Middle East (moreso Iraq than the 'Ghan) - a modernising touch, though I'd be curious to see how it 'ages', so to speak.

The somewhat persuasive sense of desperation, of fatalism even, that the film exudes was a thoroughly refreshing change of pace for the old franchise, and it was stirring to see these very mortal men and women speak of hope and justice and fighting for something greater than simple vengeance, knowing that every action they'd taken to further the rebellion's aims would actually, in the end, have meant something. Resolute in death resounding, with nary a tolling bell in sight at the breaking of their lives. Good job, we did it, mission over, a final comfort in the hope, the belier, that what they had done would help save the galaxy - a fitting sentiment as they stare down oblivion.

I rather enjoyed it, and it gave me some tremendously fascinating threads to wrestle with well after it finished, which the prequel films (and Force Awakens) didn't really do. The combat scenes and
Vader's brief onslaught
were worth admission price alone.
 

Anti_Quated

Journeyed there and back again
#4
Also, lest it slip my mind a second time:
the R2/3PO egg. Waste. Unnecessary - we know what we're watching. Ditto the two goons that Obi-Wan carves up in Mos Eisley... just how did they get off Jedha moments before it got shit-canned by the Death Star when only Imperial craft/personnel were evacuating?
Finally.... Peter Cushing's CGI ghost... I hope I never have to see such disrespectful opportunistic mangling of the deceased through computer imagery ever again. Fucking hell. Some things are sacred you Disney fucks.
Still a good film though.
 

Silvion Night

Sir Readalot
Staff member
#5
Loved it. For me it's my second or third favorite Star Wars movies.
 

jo zebedee

Journeyed there and back again
#6
Saw it. Loved. My 12 year old watched New Hope for the first time yesterday and plans Empire today. First film that sold them to her. Result!
 

Jon Snow

No Power in the Verse can stop me
Staff member
#7
I really liked it. Not a huge star wars fan. I do feel that without the original star wars, this film wouldn't have been as good. The ending was great.

@Anti_Quated I didn't mind the CGI Tarken. Yeah it looked like an animated film but it wouldn't have worked without him and I'm sure they got permission to do so by his family. The two goons didn't have to get off the planet, they just had to not be in that city. R2+C3 had to be in it so they are in every single star wars movie!
 

Matticus Primal

Journeyed there and back again
#8
Man, is it bad that I saw it a few weeks ago and didn't remember any of the plot points until you guys brought it up just now? Fairly forgettable, I guess.

I was cautiously optimistic since several friends (and fans) said it was pretty good. But then again, I was also cautiously optimistic about Force Awakens. Just like I was about the prequels. And the remastered (*dripping sarcasm on the "master" part of that*) theatrical releases.

And I have to say, I was disappointed by them all. And after these 20 years, it's time to realize that I'm in an abusive relationship with Star Wars. Yes, our relationship started off exquisitely. Hell, she was my first love, and I'll judge all future relationships by her now. She is my yardstick. And I mean that in the best possible way.

But somewhere around the remasters she started taking advantage of me, and every time I said "wait, this isn't right; something's wrong here" she told me it was me, not her. Then she made new friends and brought a string of randos around (Anakin, Darth Maul, Prince Amad... hell, I can't even spell her name because I don't care so much) that I plain didn't like. It was then that I realized she had become someone I just couldn't stand. So I said, that's enough; we're through.

And I stuck by that resolution for a few years, but she finally lured me back. She promised she had changed, and I honestly have to say she looked good after she dropped those 220 lbs of excess Lucas. So we went out on our first date in forever, and I'm not going to lie: When "Long time ago..." crawled across the screen there was that same magic again. I was a young boy again and remembered why I loved her in the first place.

But then she belted me in the face with the very next scene, and by the end of the night I felt used, bruised and abused. And missing $12 (plus popcorn) to add insult to injury.

Yet like a sucker I went in to see Rogue One. And while I wasn't exactly bruised when I left, I did get the sneaking suspicion she had picked my pocket again.

So that's it. I'm done. No more. Never again. I'm through with Star Wars.


Except for Rebels, that is. That show is pretty dope.
 
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Silvion Night

Sir Readalot
Staff member
#9
Man, is it bad that I saw it a few weeks ago and didn't remember any of the plot points until you guys brought it up just now? Fairly forgettable, I guess.

I was cautiously optimistic since several friends (and fans) said it was pretty good. But then again, I was also cautiously optimistic about Force Awakens. Just like I was about the prequels. And the remastered (*dripping sarcasm on the "master" part of that*) theatrical releases.

And I have to say, I was disappointed by them all. And after these 20 years, it's time to realize that I'm in an abusive relationship with Star Wars. Yes, our relationship started off exquisitely. Hell, she was my first love, and I'll judge all future relationships by her now. She is my yardstick. And I mean that in the best possible way.

But somewhere around the remasters she started taking advantage of me, and every time I said "wait, this isn't right; something's wrong here" she told me it was me, not her. Then she made new friends and brought a string of randos around (Anakin, Darth Maul, Prince Amad... hell, I can't even spell her name because I don't care so much) that I plain didn't like. It was then that I realized she had become someone I just couldn't stand. So I said, that's enough; we're through.

And I stuck by that resolution for a few years, but she finally lured me back. She promised she had changed, and I honestly have to say she looked good after she dropped those 220 lbs of excess Lucas. So we went out on our first date in forever, and I'm not going to lie: When "Long time ago..." crawled across the screen there was that same magic again. I was a young boy again and remembered why I loved her in the first place.

But then she belted me in the face with the very next scene, and by the end of the night I felt used, bruised and abused. And missing $12 (plus popcorn) to add insult to injury.

Yet like a sucker I went in to see Rogue One. And while I wasn't exactly bruised when I left, I did get the sneaking suspicion she had picked my pocket again.

So that's it. I'm done. No more. Never again. I'm through with Star Wars.


Except for Rebels, that is. That show is pretty dope.
It's not her... it's you! She's always treated me admirably, even though there were some bumps in the road during her midlife-crisis (the Phantom what?)
 

Jon Snow

No Power in the Verse can stop me
Staff member
#10
Ah see. Me and her are just F*** buddies. We just have fun, no expectations!!!
 

Bierschneeman

Journeyed there and back again
#11
Loved it I feel it's a great example of how good it is without Lucas.
Second best star wars movie...funny observation all the good ones he doesn't touch.
1. Empire strikes back (duh) he was off elsewhere during this movie consistently trying to run his company and not interfereing. He didn't write, direct or even know what was going on.

2. Rogue one. No involvement ( count the ships exactly what escapes is what you see later.

3. Force awakens no involvement.

4. A new hope. Everything went wrong , he couldn't make the story he wanted so most of his script was trashed. He had other directors filming other parts disobeying him ( and churning out great stuff) and so much went wrong most of the departments went off and did their own thing. More collaborative effort.

5. Return of the Jedi. He runs the show and it shows. Many potholes and non sequitur scenes, but people are still able to give advice and share the vision.
.slightly

6. Holiday special. Lucas only...totalitarian control. Utter garbage

7-9. Ep 1-3. Lucas only totalitarian control worse than utter garbage. Besides written by someone who doesn't even know what happened in 4-6 he shows lack of basic film theory by constantly overcrowding the screen. Fragmenting scenes. And constantly falling through the Swiss cheese like potholes. And the cgi in every scenes sucks.

The biggest failing is that he created a trilogy that would take a child 8 years to finish. I have no problem letting a four year old watch phantom, but feel uneasy about letting a 12 year old watch sith.