The Fall of Dragons by Miles Cameron

kenubrion

Journeyed there and back again
#1
This final book of Cameron's Traitor Son epic fantasy series was fantastic. It was like the first four books but even more so. Everything was wrapped up in this book. Characters you didn't remember were reintroduced and played their final parts. Even though it is the final book in the tale, new stuff happened and new characters appeared. Knowing it was all coming to a close made me read it very slowly and carefully, as I consider this series to be one of the best ever written.

By necessity I have to be circumspect about what I say because most people here haven't gotten to it yet. A few finished it before I did and I hope they will add to this review. It's about the skimpiest one I've written but I don't want to tell anything. I want to let the author show you.

This book transcends mere rating but since btkong wants it, I rate it 9.5/10.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
#2
IMO, the finale was extremely exciting from jump. A couple deaths really got to me. Not only that I cared about them but the manner of their deaths was artistry. They didn’t just die and disappear as if they never existed. Unlike most books they were remembered, mourned, and missed throughout. Just like in real life. Tons of battles! One of my favorite series. I rate the book 9 of 10. My only complaint is that the editing was as bad as the first two. :rolleyes:
 

Sneaky Burrito

Crazy Cat Lady
Staff member
#3
Something that's been bothering me a bit, and feel free to refresh my memory about something I may not recall from a previous book that would fill in the blanks for me, but:

I get the apotheosis of Amicia. Yes, she was a magic user, but it seemed to me that the reason she actually ascended to heaven (or whatever) was because of her religious faith/prayer/etc. Gabriel, meanwhile, was not particularly religious, and occasionally even offended people who were believers with offhand remarks, and used his magic for battle a lot of the time, and wasn't very humble, and apotheosis was apparently his fate as well. I know he had a connection with Amicia from the earlier books, and it seemed in his case that magic use WAS the reason for apotheosis, but then why doesn't someone like Mortimir (sp?) or Harmodius or Ghause or Desiderata also ascend? Yes, I know Ghause is dead in this book but I am talking about all the magic she did prior to her demise. Did I miss something here?
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
#4
Something that's been bothering me a bit, and feel free to refresh my memory about something I may not recall from a previous book that would fill in the blanks for me, but:

I get the apotheosis of Amicia. Yes, she was a magic user, but it seemed to me that the reason she actually ascended to heaven (or whatever) was because of her religious faith/prayer/etc. Gabriel, meanwhile, was not particularly religious, and occasionally even offended people who were believers with offhand remarks, and used his magic for battle a lot of the time, and wasn't very humble, and apotheosis was apparently his fate as well. I know he had a connection with Amicia from the earlier books, and it seemed in his case that magic use WAS the reason for apotheosis, but then why doesn't someone like Mortimir (sp?) or Harmodius or Ghause or Desiderata also ascend? Yes, I know Ghause is dead in this book but I am talking about all the magic she did prior to her demise. Did I miss something here?
I did not have any issues with that at all. My opinion and perspective is

I think his point is that he believes there is a “Higher Power” that awards “sainthood” to people who lived their entire lives primarily for the good of others and made sacrifices throughout their lives. With NO personal agendas and it does not mean they are perfect. No human is or can be. Ghause was a self serving bitch who killed people like innocent Prudentia (the woman inside Gabriel’s head and Mortimor became obsessed and power hungry and admitted he was “god like” and could do all sorts of things, Desiderata while a good person wanted to help her people but she wanted to be the one with the power. Harmodious had his personal agendas as well. Making a huge sacrifice with their lives at the end of the road is not good enough.
 

Sneaky Burrito

Crazy Cat Lady
Staff member
#5
I did not have any issues with that at all. My opinion and perspective is

I think his point is that he believes there is a “Higher Power” that awards “sainthood” to people who lived their entire lives primarily for the good of others and made sacrifices throughout their lives. With NO personal agendas and it does not mean they are perfect. No human is or can be. Ghause was a self serving bitch who killed people like innocent Prudentia (the woman inside Gabriel’s head and Mortimor became obsessed and power hungry and admitted he was “god like” and could do all sorts of things, Desiderata while a good person wanted to help her people but she wanted to be the one with the power. Harmodious had his personal agendas as well. Making a huge sacrifice with their lives at the end of the road is not good enough.
OK, that makes sense. I think I was trying to see it too much in terms of overt religion but that is just one lens to view it through, and one word for multiple situations.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
#6
OK, that makes sense. I think I was trying to see it too much in terms of overt religion but that is just one lens to view it through, and one word for multiple situations.

Yeah. I had put something in there about religion but then I deleted it. I was going to say he isn’t pushing it because that can be used for a lot of bad things and a lot of people die because of it. Crusades, holy wars, etc. I mean, I don’t know I just thought that’s what he was getting at.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
#7
That reminds me that I have a question. While typing it led to another question I had.

The entire deal of the guy (Gavin Muriens I think) with the scales growing up the side of his body (I cannot remember if they kept spreading). I can’t remember if he got them from the fairies healing him (cant recall if he was “hard hands or not...I always mixed him up with another guy...but I digress) Q1.. Regardless did those scales ever come into significance? If not I cannot imagine why it happened.2.Hard hands reminded me of “hard heart” aka lady Mary. Q. 2.Was that the same Mary that died getting arrows shot into her impersonating queen Desiderata? .I think that is the one person nobody grieved over. Like the queen didn’t really ever think twice about the sacrifice nor did her lover “hard hands”. That bothered me. Or was it a different Mary? Or did something fly right over my head? It’s just that Cameron was so meticulous with that sorta thing. .
 

Sneaky Burrito

Crazy Cat Lady
Staff member
#8
That reminds me that I have a question. While typing it led to another question I had.

The entire deal of the guy (Gavin Muriens I think) with the scales growing up the side of his body (I cannot remember if they kept spreading). I can’t remember if he got them from the fairies healing him (cant recall if he was “hard hands or not...I always mixed him up with another guy...but I digress) Q1.. Regardless did those scales ever come into significance? If not I cannot imagine why it happened.2.Hard hands reminded me of “hard heart” aka lady Mary. Q. 2.Was that the same Mary that died getting arrows shot into her impersonating queen Desiderata? .I think that is the one person nobody grieved over. Like the queen didn’t really ever think twice about the sacrifice nor did her lover “hard hands”. That bothered me. Or was it a different Mary? Or did something fly right over my head? It’s just that Cameron was so meticulous with that sorta thing. .
I don't know the answer to your second question. To your first, no, I don't think they did.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
#9
I don't know the answer to your second question. To your first, no, I don't think they did.

Then I think maybe that was a mea culpa on his part. I thought one of two things would come of it but never considered that 3rd option.
I thought 1. The scales would deflect a killing blow or 2. He was turning into some kind of man-dragon. 3. Nothing coming of it surprised me. He mentioned it throughout so it is strange. Either cure it or do something with it! Maybe with Gabriel having a child (son?) on the way and uncle Gavin turning into whatever Cameron had a sequel in the back of his mind. Oh well. i
 

ExTended

Journeyed there and back again
#11
Something that's been bothering me a bit, and feel free to refresh my memory about something I may not recall from a previous book that would fill in the blanks for me, but:

I get the apotheosis of Amicia. Yes, she was a magic user, but it seemed to me that the reason she actually ascended to heaven (or whatever) was because of her religious faith/prayer/etc. Gabriel, meanwhile, was not particularly religious, and occasionally even offended people who were believers with offhand remarks, and used his magic for battle a lot of the time, and wasn't very humble, and apotheosis was apparently his fate as well. I know he had a connection with Amicia from the earlier books, and it seemed in his case that magic use WAS the reason for apotheosis, but then why doesn't someone like Mortimir (sp?) or Harmodius or Ghause or Desiderata also ascend? Yes, I know Ghause is dead in this book but I am talking about all the magic she did prior to her demise. Did I miss something here?
Darth has made a pretty decent guess, very close to mine, still...

I think the point of it was that both Amicia and Gabriel had managed to go beyond what you'd expect of them, considering their beginnings. Amicia was a wild thing, refuge of war, taking shelter in her enemies territory, but trying to do well by both sides. Gabriel was pretty much the same - he knew that both sides of the conflict( gold vs green) had their flaws and faults, but he've chosen to help anyway.

And I also think that Miles have tried to underline that it's all about the intentions behind ones actions. When you think about it, even when Gabriel was at odds with religion, he still allowed for the different opinion and decency of those who were believers. He fought for them, tried to make everybody's life better, or less awful. For no other reason that because he felt it to be right.

There was a distinct feeling across all the series that Amicia, and Gabriel, were the ones who clung to decency at all costs, even when they weren't obliged to, and for no personal gain of their own, at least not in the self-centered way in which others did, so it's only natural that some flaws of character in them could've been ignored from the greater good.

And also - I've been left with the impression that the apotheosis figures weren't supposed to be pure, exactly, but powerful enough to be players themselves, and I suppose decent enough not to spoil the town's well when they ascended and started their own chess games for the fate of the universe.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
#12
Darth has made a pretty decent guess, very close to mine, still...

I think the point of it was that both Amicia and Gabriel had managed to go beyond what you'd expect of them, considering their beginnings. Amicia was a wild thing, refuge of war, taking shelter in her enemies territory, but trying to do well by both sides. Gabriel was pretty much the same - he knew that both sides of the conflict( gold vs green) had their flaws and faults, but he've chosen to help anyway.

And I also think that Miles have tried to underline that it's all about the intentions behind ones actions. When you think about it, even when Gabriel was at odds with religion, he still allowed for the different opinion and decency of those who were believers. He fought for them, tried to make everybody's life better, or less awful. For no other reason that because he felt it to be right.

There was a distinct feeling across all the series that Amicia, and Gabriel, were the ones who clung to decency at all costs, even when they weren't obliged to, and for no personal gain of their own, at least not in the self-centered way in which others did, so it's only natural that some flaws of character in them could've been ignored from the greater good.

And also - I've been left with the impression that the apotheosis figures weren't supposed to be pure, exactly, but powerful enough to be players themselves, and I suppose decent enough not to spoil the town's well when they ascended and started their own chess games for the fate of the universe.
Thanks. I must return the compliment in kind and say that was a pretty decent elaboration of what was extremely close to what I guessed. ;)