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Jon Snow

No Power in the Verse can stop me
Staff member

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
That would be great! Hopefully we can also encourage a few more members to add their ratings or even some "lurkers" to join and do likewise. Everyone's opinion is valued around here.

Hhhhhmmmm, underrated is probably harder. I'll start off with Lyonnese as I hardly ever hear anyone mention it and it should be very well known (or maybe it is?).
Lyonnese is #6 on Ben's top 50 epics list.

But offhand, as opposed to safe hand
or free hand;) it seems like a good candidate regardless. I don't remember seeing it mentioned on any/many other lists or discussions.

Should we develop additional criteria to determine eligibility?
 

Sneaky Burrito

Crazy Cat Lady
Staff member
I don't think Sword of Truth is a " good" book. I held no desire to read the second book.

But why is it despised? What Ben had to say was hysterical. Did anyone else really think it was THAT bad? Is it a reaction to those immature SOT groupies? I've read their illiterate reactions to non-Richard worshippers.

I gave the series a "7" based on one book. I don't remember it being that poorly written. Yeah, the lady in red leather was kinky as hell and Darken Raul and company getting off on little kids was disgusting.

I'm embarrassed how long it took me to get through the book so maybe it really was worse than I remember?
That was more a rating for the series as a whole. It gets MUCH, MUCH worse. Terry Goodkind has a big problem with women, first of all. Second of all, he likes to repeat himself, a lot. He tells the story of Richard and Kahlan meeting in EVERY volume. One of the books in the series was a big rip-off of the Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. Goodkind spouts his political nonsense incessantly in the later volumes of the series (I stuck it out through all 11 or so books). His characterization of indigenous people is often offensive. And the armies of Jagang have literally millions of members. I could go on, but I could thought of all this in 2 minutes.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
Sounds like he should be shipped off to a deserted island with Piers Anthony. Why in the world did you subject yourself to reading an entire series of offensive trash like that? :eek:
 

Sneaky Burrito

Crazy Cat Lady
Staff member
Sounds like he should be shipped off to a deserted island with Piers Anthony. Why in the world did you subject yourself to reading an entire series of offensive trash like that? :eek:
I had already paid for it. And I had a LOT of time to read at the time. I was finishing stuff faster than I could buy new stuff.

Now that I'm not in school any longer and I have a full-time job, my perspective has changed. The only time I would ever consider reading Goodkind again is if I really wanted to trash something in an Amazon review.
 

Antoxx

Journeyed there and back again
Lyonnese is #6 on Ben's top 50 epics list.

But offhand, as opposed to safe hand
or free hand;) it seems like a good candidate regardless. I don't remember seeing it mentioned on any/many other lists or discussions.

Should we develop additional criteria to determine eligibility?
Doh, didn't see that. Good spotting. That's why I reckon its hard, trying to determine appropriate criteria.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
Doh, didn't see that. Good spotting. That's why I reckon its hard, trying to determine appropriate criteria.
But I think that is a good book. I have not read it. But Ben likes it. And you like it. So I think it is underrated since nobody talks about it. It is going to have to be subjective. There is a book on there that I like. Others may not. But I think it is underrated. I trust your guys's judgment.

We could wait and see if two people vote for it. But that could be tough. So we just have to trust everyone's judgment unless there are objections. If there are objections we can all discuss it.

That's my suggestion. Maybe somebody has a better way?
 

Danica

Queen of the boards!
Staff member
I was surprised to see LotR holding the top ranking, I love the movies but couldn't even get anywhere near the books. I think I am alone in that tho. I think it is because I make fun of the epic travelling montages in the movies and they only go for like 5 seconds, there is no way I can read pages and pages of descriptions.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
I was surprised to see LotR holding the top ranking, I love the movies but couldn't even get anywhere near the books. I think I am alone in that tho. I think it is because I make fun of the epic travelling montages in the movies and they only go for like 5 seconds, there is no way I can read pages and pages of descriptions.
I read LOTR many moons ago. I LOVED it. I do remember hating the poetry but that's all.

Yes today's writers are more sophisticated or whatever. They also do cool things like killing off all of the main characters we spent countless hours getting to know in book one. Plus they really go into great realistic detail describing rape scenes and such which is always fun.. but still, despite all that I still somehow derived great joy from the LOTR.

Ok just kidding. Irrelevant tangent now complete. Seriously It was a wonderful experience for me and I just maybe let my memories and emotions get the best of me. I just can't help it. I gave it a Bo Derrick Ten! :D
 
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Sneaky Burrito

Crazy Cat Lady
Staff member
I do remember hating the poetry but that's all.
I skipped all the poetry. I could've done without Tom Bombadil, too. I actually couldn't get into the books until after the first movie came out. But since then, I've come to appreciate how much work Tolkien put into worldbuilding, which is something unmatched these days.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
I skipped all the poetry. I could've done without Tom Bombadil, too. I actually couldn't get into the books until after the first movie came out. But since then, I've come to appreciate how much work Tolkien put into worldbuilding, which is something unmatched these days.

I'm OCD. I cannot allow myself to skip one word no matter how painful a passage is. :wacky:
 

moonspawn

Journeyed there and back again
Yes today's writers are more sophisticated or whatever.
That's a very questionable comment and probably one that needs to be dissected by someone much more well read than you or myself but..... I think most literary critics would strongly disagree with you on that point.

However, that comment may be true about fantasy literature only which I think is what you were referring to. Or it might not be true at all and were all under some kind of preconceived misconception.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
That's a very questionable comment and probably one that needs to be dissected by someone much more well read than you or myself but..... I think most literary critics would strongly disagree with you on that point.

However, that comment may be true about fantasy literature only which I think is what you were referring to. Or it might not be true at all and were all under some kind of preconceived misconception.
Dissecting that issue is the last thing I care to do with my time whether I'm "qualified" or not. But I will keep in mind for future reference that I will be expected to produce my "literary critic card" if I ever do decide to seriously take a stance on the topic.;)

I was emphasizing lightheartedly that LOTR will always hold a place near and dear to my heart and perhaps this affects my objectivity when rating it. I really need to locate a sarcastic smiley... although I hoped " just kidding" would serve as a sufficient disclaimer :angelic:
 

Danica

Queen of the boards!
Staff member
They also do cool things like killing off all of the main characters we spent countless hours getting to know in book one. Plus they really go into great realistic detail describing rape scenes and such which is always fun
my eyes almost popped out of my head until I realised you were kidding, those elements you describe are precisely what makes me want to curl up will a good old fashioned good vs evil and good always wins book!

As for LotR, it's totally personal opinion and I know I am a minority with my feelings towards it.
 

Darth Tater

Journeyed there and back again
my eyes almost popped out of my head until I realised you were kidding, those elements you describe are precisely what makes me want to curl up will a good old fashioned good vs evil and good always wins book!

As for LotR, it's totally personal opinion and I know I am a minority with my feelings towards it.
:D

We all know there are just certain things about some books that turn us off or float our boats. Just like everything else in life.

Antoxx could show you that I turned in several grades that went largely against the grain one way or another.
 

Hand of Fear

Journeyed there and back again
It be good to see if this list changes much if we all continue to rate books once we've read more between us all, really appreciate the time and effort that has been put in to the list.
 

moonspawn

Journeyed there and back again
I was emphasizing lightheartedly that LOTR will always hold a place near and dear to my heart and perhaps this affects my objectivity when rating it. I really need to locate a sarcastic smiley... although I hoped " just kidding" would serve as a sufficient disclaimer
Don't worry about trying to be objective; most of us here make absolutely no attempt at that and even Ben's lists on this site are far from being objective. Keep in mind that a lot of people feel the same way you do about LOTR which very much increases the legitimacy of your objectivity.
 

Jon Snow

No Power in the Verse can stop me
Staff member
You can't be objective with something so personal. Every list, every book review is subjective =)
 

João Ribeiro

Journeyed there and back again
Keep in mind that a lot of people feel the same way you do about LOTR which very much increases the legitimacy of your objectivity.
Yup it's funny because I think that if I read it now for the first time it wouldn't be as dear to me as it is. Since it was one of the first I read it has to be in the top 10... probably forever.

One does not simply take LOTR from the Top 10!