Training for Malazan?

Amaryllis

Journeyed there and back again
#61
Well, to be fair, I'm pretty sure I always advise people not to read the series. :p

I'm honestly not a fan of Wheel of Time on the Best Of list. I can understand why it's there (it's an iconic series, and it probably has a fair amount of influence, although significantly less than ASoIaF), but to then put Dungeons and Dragons novels on the Worst list. I don't think the D&D novels are great, by any means (I haven't read them all, obviously), but they wave around just as much influence on the way fantasy is portrayed and perceived, and honestly, a lot of times they are easier reading, lol.
 

Amaryllis

Journeyed there and back again
#63
It wasn't that hard to be a fan of the series if you read it before realizing that Robert Jordan was going to milk the teat for all it was worth (and also probably had head problems). There was a point where it was a great, fresh story, and you didn't have this deluge of gritty, 'realistic' epic fantasy to constantly judge it against.
 

Antoxx

Journeyed there and back again
#66
Well, turned out I just couldn't do it. I slogged through until about chapter 5 and then I found that I'd just started skipping paragraphs at a time without really noticing (not that it mattered, because, surprise-surprise, there was nothing worth noting in those paragraphs anyway). So then I got to chapter 10 and I hit the Jordan Wall - can't take anymore. I tried to force myself to read more but, even with skipping paragraphs at a time, I just couldn't do it. I had to go and read something that was actually, you know, good, or at least has the potential to be, so now I'm reading Guy Gavriel Kay's Tigana.
Oh well, at least you gave it a good nudge. I loved Tigana, certainly think it's one of the better standalones out there. Plenty of others not so keen on it though.
 

moonspawn

Journeyed there and back again
#67
I suppose I've ranted on that topic enough though, eh? Let me stop before I piss too many people off.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of WoT fans here so it doesn't appear that you're offending anybody except Jon Snow maybe..... Like I said before I never ever ever ever plan to read the WoT for many of the reason's you've succinctly stated. I've heard so many bad things about the series that I literally feel like I've read it. Any time an author goes beyond the tenth book in a series it is pretty much guaranteed that the author is milking it for all it's worth. Any series can only stay fresh for so long. For this reason from now on I refuse to read deep into any series that goes beyond ten books. I like things different and not the same. I quite reading the Dresden Files at I think the 9th book because that book and the one prior to that weren't different enough from the rest of the series so were boring to me.

I have a number of friends who define fantasy as D&D - for them, fantasy must include all D&D-isms - and over the years I've encountered hundreds, if not thousands, of such people, while I've only encountered one other person that's read WoT - or at least only one that admitted such. So yeah, I'd agree those books definitely have more influence than WoT, at least in my experience. They both belong on the Worst list though. D&D for being such banal, pointless garbage and WoT for being the prime example of the worst fantasy has to offer in so many ways - as even stated in the very entry on this site that tells you to read the damn garbage! That entry on these lists is the only one I've found, so far at least, that simply doesn't measure up to reality though, the others have been spot on.

If it had been a friend and not "the internet" that had recommended WoT to me back in 2005, that person would no longer be a friend. Seriously. As it is, I can't stop my D&D-loving friends from constantly talking about that crap with me. I hate D&D, always have and always will - why is it that they assume just because I love fantasy that I must then read D&D novels. No, I like good fantasy, damn you, not D&D - stop pestering me!
I've had some friends who are big D&D fans too; glad I don't have to play D&D anymore. I liked it at first, but I hate it now. The first Icewind Dale book is one of the top 5 most boring books I've ever read and I read it a long time ago. However, I thought the trilogy about Drizzt being born was decent. I don't get how the riftwar saga is better than that trilogy. Maybe as far as originally is concerned than yes, but certainly not as far as believably, characterization, and plot. If most of Raymond E. Feist's work is twice as bad as the riftwar saga then I don't even want to know about it because I thought the riftwar saga was terrible. Bad and embarrassingly simple plot, absolutely horrid characterization and obvious character development, and for the most part it's very predictable and parts of it are just stupid and the writing is reealllllllllllllly boring on top of all that. I think Raymond E. Feist had some interesting ideas, but didn't know how to execute them. Good example of another not spot on entry to the greatest fantasy novels list. But if you look on any greatest fantasy novels list both the Riftwar saga and the Wheel of Time will be on the list every single time. Well... almost. A friend did recommend the Riftwar saga to me by the way. Me and him aren't friends anymore, but that recommendation has nothing to do with it.
 

Zarien

Knows how to pronounce Kvothe
#69
Just pick it up and try it. If you can't quite digest it, try House of Blades by Will Wight. That book has been compared to the malazan series before and its by a new author.
 

Antoxx

Journeyed there and back again
#70
try House of Blades by Will Wight. That book has been compared to the malazan series before and its by a new author.
Not sure why anyone has compared it to Malazan given what I read of the sample first chapter. I did see the obligatory comparison to Tolkein on the Amazon website by reviewers that have only ever reviewed one book before. Pretty good strike rate though as that one book was getting 5 stars from every reviewer.
 

Amaryllis

Journeyed there and back again
#71
Not sure why anyone has compared it to Malazan given what I read of the sample first chapter. I did see the obligatory comparison to Tolkein on the Amazon website by reviewers that have only ever reviewed one book before. Pretty good strike rate though as that one book was getting 5 stars from every reviewer.

Under no circumstances is that guy Will Wright himself, or one of his friends/family. I feel confident in this.

Honestly though. The 5 star reviews. Why. I'm not talking about this book in particular, but every self-published novel (I'm also not really asking a question here, just ranting). 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars, 5 stars. Is anybody, literally anybody, actually fooled by this at this point? Even if you're a trusting soul, you must have been burned by this in the past, so one would think you'd learn even then. And besides, it looks fake. I mean, I actually kinda feel sorry for someone who writes a legitimately amazing book that nobody can say a bad word about, because people are so cynical that they'd suspect something.

If I were going to self-publish and then astroturf my own book, I'd try to hit the spectrum of ratings, and jimmy the actual main rating somewhere around 4 (and if I was dedicated enough to do that many reviews, the upper 3s). I'd give myself one star reviews, and make them seem like the dumbest things ever while still being believable and maybe even having a point (I'm not great at dialogue, so I'd probably call myself out on it a time or two), but I'd make well-written lower rated reviews that pointed out legitimate flaws. I'd avoid the ridiculous hyperbole (this book is like what would happen if you rolled J.R.R. Tolkien, George R.R. Martin, Brandon Sanderson and Leo Tolstoy up into a joint and then smoked it!), and not try to make it look like reading my book was some kind of religious experience. And for god's sake, I would not like every review with every other account.

I have no idea how this would work, because my interest in self-publishing is roughly zero, but it would at least make it look realistic. If there's a spread of decent reviews, you might actually read more than the first line of the first one ("I am not usually a fan of fantasy, but I just couldn't put this down!!!" *back button* ). You might not even have a reason to suspect them of being dummy accounts if it isn't slathered in universal, effusive praise. But I can't see it being less successful than the kind of stuff that happens now.
 

Zarien

Knows how to pronounce Kvothe
#72
Honestly, well read or not, you either like the series or you don't. Just grab it and if it isn't your cup of tea set it to the wayside. I run out of fantasy novels to read sometimes, and that was the only reason I got through the rough patches of the malazan series.
 

Zarien

Knows how to pronounce Kvothe
#73
Not sure why anyone has compared it to Malazan given what I read of the sample first chapter. I did see the obligatory comparison to Tolkein on the Amazon website by reviewers that have only ever reviewed one book before. Pretty good strike rate though as that one book was getting 5 stars from every reviewer.

Honestly, I don't know why it was being compared to malazan either. The only comparison you can draw between the two is the magic system a little, but thats only because of how the magic is derived in House of Blades. Other than that the two are different.
 

Antoxx

Journeyed there and back again
#74
Honestly, I don't know why it was being compared to malazan either. The only comparison you can draw between the two is the magic system a little, but thats only because of how the magic is derived in House of Blades. Other than that the two are different.
Cool, clears that up as well. The brief bit I did read seemed as if possibly geared towards YA?
 

Zarien

Knows how to pronounce Kvothe
#75
Cool, clears that up as well. The brief bit I did read seemed as if possibly geared towards YA?

I think it's one of those ones that borders on young adults and older. It tip toes back and forth, there's enough violence that I would hesitate to suggest to too young of an adult, but not so much that I wouldn't say it isn't. From the blurbs he has given me of the second book being released in august, I think the writing will become a bit more defined away from the young adult side.
 

Antoxx

Journeyed there and back again
#76
Sweet, I didn't read enough to be able to make a definitive call on it and to be honest was wondering if it might straddle as you've intimated.
 

TomTB

Super Moderator
Staff member
#77
Currently struggling with Malazan!

Nearly finished House of Chains, and barr the first 250 pages, haven't massively enjoyed it. There just seems to be a lot of people wandering around not doing a lot. Not sure if it's just the Seven Cities story lines, Deadhouse Gates wasn't that great for me either.

Wondering whether to have a break from the series, or just soldier on .. I'm worried if i stop now for a while, I'll forget what is going on, it's difficult enough at the best of times.

Hhhhhmmmmmmm ...
 

Antoxx

Journeyed there and back again
#78
Currently struggling with Malazan!

Nearly finished House of Chains, and barr the first 250 pages, haven't massively enjoyed it. There just seems to be a lot of people wandering around not doing a lot. Not sure if it's just the Seven Cities story lines, Deadhouse Gates wasn't that great for me either.

Wondering whether to have a break from the series, or just soldier on .. I'm worried if i stop now for a while, I'll forget what is going on, it's difficult enough at the best of times.

Hhhhhmmmmmmm ...
I read the first 2 one after the other and then broke the books up by reading other stuff in between as I didn't want to burn myself out on them by reading them continuously one after the other as I found them intense. Given not all the books continue the same storyline following the previous book, you're probably going to have some recall issues anyway. I found the first 50-100 pages of each new book was enough to reacquaint myself with each storyline though.
 

Zarien

Knows how to pronounce Kvothe
#79
I did the same thing as Antoxx. I had to break it up between some of the books because these weren't the type of books you can just read one after another and not get burned out on. I stumbled the most on House of Chains. I continuously had to go to the back of the book and make sure I wasn't crazy or had forgotten some obscure name that I needed to remember. Sometimes it could be quite a chore.
 

Hand of Fear

Journeyed there and back again
#80
I haven't read these books yet but will eventfully get around to reading them, I like some of you have pointed out in your own posts have trouble remembering what happens in books and if the series is really long it's even worse.

I read most of WoT when I was younger but never finished it, because I just stopped reading. So I don't know if I should start all over again or just carry on from where I left off, bearing in mind this was about ten years ago.

So how do you overcome these issues ?