What would you like to see less of in fantasy books?

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Maark Abbott, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Peat

    Peat Journeyed there and back again

    Because if you leave a backdoor for yourself, you've also left a backdoor for everyone else. See how tech companies operate today.

    *shrugs* I am happy with the level of explanation shown in Wheel of Time. I don't need everything explained and would go mad if an author tried to. Not only would it be a gigantic waste of words, but it goes against the grain of what makes a sensible world to me. There's always mysteries. I get that's not for everyone, but there we go. Plenty of books that like to tie everything into a bow.
     
  2. Darwin

    Darwin Journeyed there and back again

    It's never said that the Forsaken couldn't have killed the gholam. I suspect they'd have done as well or better than Mat did. But "they" didn't make the gholam, only Aginor made them, and the gholam were lost like most of the other ancient treasures. One was found and release. (It's more than a little weird that the Forsaken kept all their interesting shit in stasis boxes before their ancient defeat.)

    I thought Aginor making them was a decent rebuttal to your question "how could they also not kill it?" because Aginor dies soon after being freed from his prison in book 1. But google is telling me that Osan'gar, the reborn forsaken, was probably Aginor, and that he was Dashiva throughout most of the series. I missed that on my initial read and re-read. Seems like a gross misuse of Aginor's mad scientist abilities to have him follow Rand instead of designing new crazy shadowspawn.
     
  3. Peat

    Peat Journeyed there and back again

    According to WoT wiki, the equipment Aginor used no longer existed in the Third Age. Presumably rebuilding it, and then creating new races, would have taken too much time to be practical - if that was even possible.
     
  4. rudyjuly2

    rudyjuly2 Ran bridges next to Kaladin

    It was hard to keep track of some of the Forsaken and the ones that got brought back. I miss some of that stuff too much. I think even the author struggled to keep track of some things. My head just spins at times. I should probably read an analysis book on the whole series to fill in some blanks. Despite 14 books the history of the Forsaken still had a lot of mystery.
     
  5. Amaryllis

    Amaryllis Journeyed there and back again

    Reviving this thread because I finally have something to submit for the OP that isn't just whining or nitpicking. Well, I guess maybe it's sort of whining, but then that's what the entire OP premise is conducive to. But it's definitely not nitpicking! Anyway:

    Anachronistic/self-referential humor.

    Obvious pass if it's a parody book that is SUPPOSED to be about that.

    Thankfully it doesn't appear often, and mostly appears in very modern works, but oh my lord does it bug the everloving shit out of me. I don't care what style of fantasy you're trying to write, whether its weird, dark and gritty, pulp, traditional, whatever. Just write it and take pride in your work. Don't try to wink at me.

    I'm thinking specifically of this happening at the end of Theft of Swords (the first Riyria book).
    After the wizard does the scrying to try to find 'the chosen one,' the book doesn't tell you who it revealed, but one of the protagonists makes a joke that's something like 'Considering how this usually goes, I expected the chosen one would be somebody from around here [small, isolated farming village], haha!' to which the wizard smiles and replies 'Often, the unexpected happens.'

    It's like, first of all, fuck you dude. This is like the most traditional fantasy story I have read in several years, and the author even admits he intentionally made it this way in the interview at the back of the book, because that was the kind of story he loved. The entire book has been completely and utterly 'expected,' and you're not going to pretend you're edgy with a cute little joke at the end
    , but it also happens in the Kingkiller Chronicles as well, where Kvothe is talking about how the story he's telling would be if it was one of those stale storybook fantasy stories psh -- something about the hero finding a mentor or a clever talking animal -- and then goes on to tell the most blatantly storybook story humanly possible, to the point where people just call it 'adult Harry Potter.' Bruh, if you're going to tell a cliche story, just own it. I am 500 pages in and have already bought the damn book. Stop it with the 'HAI THERE READER, I SEE YOU AND WE'RE IN ON THIS JOKE TOGETHER LOL' stuff. I've seen this a few times recently in e-books I've bought on Amazon as well, and feel like it's becoming more common as all our pop culture stuff becomes ever more self-referential. I hate it. If you absolutely must add this kind of meta reference in a non-comedy, do it like Tolkien, who at least didn't try to make it a joke for the reader that would make no sense in-universe. Sam and Frodo doing it had narrative weight because of that.

    I can deal with most fantasy genre conceits without missing a beat. But whenever the author references the fact that I am, in fact, reading a book, it deeply annoys me. This one tears me right out of a book, and it becomes very hard to get back into it. Can you not save it for the author interview (since Orbit ALWAYS adds them), or for your website, to tell me that you ALSO read TV Tropes, and are a kool dude? I didn't need to know that badly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017

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