Wheel of Time lands with Sony

Alucard

In the name of the Pizza Lord. Charge!
Staff member
Extented has been banned. We had enough reports on him and his behavior recently and in the past to warrant that few times over, but his recent tirade of non ending abusive posts has reached the limit.

Being an active poster doesn't give anyone right to name call and verbally abuse moderators and other posters.
This forum has always been consistent on no politics and no religion discussions because that turns into a shit show very fast as some of us older members have witnessed in the past and right now.

I would think that in some part we all read fantasy books to get away from things like that.
I hope that with forum upgrade and new members sign up we will all have more opportunity to engage in fantasy/sci-fi books discussion.
 

Cyphon

Journeyed there and back again
I didn't see the posts so just commenting from context, when we can keep a level head and insults out of the discussion I do think things like this make for interesting conversations.

I have said before and will say it again, you are adapting a great series so you need to do your best to make sure you keep what made it great. This series doesn't need to add in a bunch of harcore sex and things of that nature because that never happened in the books. That worked perfect for Game of Thrones and as much as I am sure I would love to see a lot of these women naked, I prefer they stick close to the tone of the books.

With that in mind, I don't think the race of the actors does anything to change what these books were. So from a view strictly on the surface of things I am not bothered by it in the least bit. The part that bothers me (and it won't impact my enjoyment of the show thinking about it) is that it does come across very much like pandering. You have source material and a pretty clear idea of how characters look so there are very few possible explanations as to why those things would change other than pandering or whatever word you thinks fit best. So there are 2 points to that:

1. Nothing about it changes the tone of the book IMO so as I said, on that front we are good.

2. The concerning portion is whether this "pandering" caused them to overlook what possibly could have been better actors for the part. We obviously won't be able to answer that but I can understand why people would ask those questions. Did you look for the best person for the part or did you narrow your view to feel better morally or to push some kind of political/cultural movement?

So for me the race of the actors doesn't matter so long as they actually chose based off who they thought best fit the protrayal of the character. You see Denzel Washington is one of the best actors of all time but I don't think he would play a good Hitler.

Lastly, I see a few people have mentioned The Boys. I recently finished watching it with my wife and I am not as high on it as some of you. Certainly an interesting premise but I thought quite a few of the actors left a lot to be desired and some of the stuff was extremely corny and cheesy. The Deeps whole storyline was just ridiculous and they could have cut that whole character out and not lost anything. I suppose it was intended to be funny but they failed miserably on that front. I'd be at about a 7/10. The reason I add to this discussion is because it kind of ties into my earlier point. Whoever did the casting for this show didn't do a very good job so Amazon has me a little worried. Of course that had nothing to do with race because most of the bad actors were white.

If you want a great example of Prime taking source material and doing it justice look no further than Bosch. I thought they did a really good job with that.
 

rudyjuly2

Journeyed there and back again
Well said Cyphon. The Deep character was a bit wasteful in the Boys but I still loved the premise and Series.

While we worry about casting choices I think a far bigger concern will be what gets cut out of the Source material. They are going to have to cut a lot if they truly want to see the entire series converted to TV.
 

Cyphon

Journeyed there and back again
Well said Cyphon. The Deep character was a bit wasteful in the Boys but I still loved the premise and Series.

While we worry about casting choices I think a far bigger concern will be what gets cut out of the Source material. They are going to have to cut a lot if they truly want to see the entire series converted to TV.
Yeah the premise is what really drew me in. Ultimately just didn't love the execution. Not sure if I will go back for a season 2 or not.

Agreed about the source material. There is so much for them to work with and consider that it means there is so much room for mistakes and pissing people off lol.
 

Darwin

Journeyed there and back again
Without getting too political, at no point does Jordan explicitly describe the Two Rivers folk (other than Rand) as white. The few snippets of text that could be interpreted as a description of skin color note their darker features (Elaida's noting that the untanned part of Rand's skin lighter than Two Rivers natural skin, Cenn Buie described as "gnarled and dark as an old root," and a few more). On the other hand, there's one bit about Egwene looking like the Aiel after spending so much time in the sun, but the light-skinned black actors cast for the Two Rivers roles would also darken under such circumstances. Jordan describes every other facet of his characters especially when they're first introduced, often including lengthy, detailed descriptions of what they're wearing. The skin color ambiguity of many characters is certainly on purpose.

If the casting isn't textually inaccurate or clearly contrary to the author's intentions, it certainly conflicts with many of the readers' headcanons. I'm not convinced either is more important than the other, or at all. Whether the casting is pandering, marketing to an increasingly non-white target audience, or honoring Jordan's described vision of a "melting pot" all seems a bit irrelevant.

Also, I liked The Deep! He's 1) comic relief (I mean, after the initial thing) and 2) the show's version of Aquaman as a Hollywood C-list actor. The insecurity and flaws are fitting!
 

Cyphon

Journeyed there and back again
Without getting too political, at no point does Jordan explicitly describe the Two Rivers folk (other than Rand) as white. The few snippets of text that could be interpreted as a description of skin color note their darker features (Elaida's noting that the untanned part of Rand's skin lighter than Two Rivers natural skin, Cenn Buie described as "gnarled and dark as an old root," and a few more). On the other hand, there's one bit about Egwene looking like the Aiel after spending so much time in the sun, but the light-skinned black actors cast for the Two Rivers roles would also darken under such circumstances. Jordan describes every other facet of his characters especially when they're first introduced, often including lengthy, detailed descriptions of what they're wearing. The skin color ambiguity of many characters is certainly on purpose.

If the casting isn't textually inaccurate or clearly contrary to the author's intentions, it certainly conflicts with many of the readers' headcanons. I'm not convinced either is more important than the other, or at all. Whether the casting is pandering, marketing to an increasingly non-white target audience, or honoring Jordan's described vision of a "melting pot" all seems a bit irrelevant.
Interesting point and it has been awhile since I have read the series so it is nice to have those descriptions refreshed and maybe they should be shared with all of the complainers.

One last time for me the main thing is finding good actors. I could care less what they look like (well I want the girls to look good lol)

Also, I liked The Deep! He's 1) comic relief (I mean, after the initial thing) and 2) the show's version of Aquaman as a Hollywood C-list actor. The insecurity and flaws are fitting!
To each their own. I couldn't stand him and outside of his physique my wife couldn't either and she is a much less harsh critic than myself. As I said before I didn't care for a few of the choices they made for the cast. Mostly on the "bad guy" side of things. Didn't like The Deep, Homelander, Starlight, Stillwell, or the talent coordinator lady. A-Train was solid and I liked Queen Maeve. On the other side I did like most of the choices for the good guys. Really wanted more from Black Noir as I thought he had the coolest character design. Overall was just hoping for more from the whole thing and didn't get it.
 

ReguIa

Journeyed there and back again
The praise The Boys has received for the casting and the acting as well has been sky high. I can understand if ''The Deep'' didn't work for you, but WOW, did you really not like Homelander? 99% think he's the best thing about the show, without a doubt. I'm curious why he didn't work for you?

As for Wheel of Time, I'm currently reading it so it'll be strange seeing people of mixed color where there shouldn't be when it's so fresh in my mind. It would present quite the challenge if they were to be completely faitful to the material though, considering how often characters disappear at times and then come back later on. For me, I just hope whomever they cast is a good actor.
 
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Cyphon

Journeyed there and back again
The praise The Boys has received for the casting and the acting as well has been sky high. I can understand if ''The Deep'' didn't work for you, but WOW, did you really not like Homelander? 99% think he's the best thing about the show, without a doubt. I'm curious why he didn't work for you?
I don't think there is really a good explanation I can give. Sometimes people/actors just work for you and sometimes they don't and cast for me is pretty much a make or break thing. I will watch something that doesn't necessarily intrigue me if there are actors in it I like and I might pass on something with an interesting looking plot if I know I don't like the actors. For The Boys specifically I'd say my favorite was either Frenchy or Butcher. Hughie was good as well. Mothers Milk was solid.

And to be clear I am not necessarily saying the parts were poorly played or the acting was bad, I just didn't like it.
 

Peat

Journeyed there and back again
Thanks to the mods for taking action. I'll miss some of Extended's viewpoints, but am happy to see people who can't behave gone.

Is this Lan? I don't see a tweet directly from Rafe but again, not what I expected (which was a white dude in a beard with long hair).
This is Lan and I always found myself mildly at a loss as to what real world ethnicity he'd mirror, as Malkier seems some parts East Asia and some parts South Asia. So... I guess I'll be sold depending on how well he scowls. Has a lot of MA experience though, which is a huge plus here.

I never really thought 'white' though as the Borderlands as a whole seem to be varying types of Asian (although, yes, there are white Asians).

(I thought Homelander was played perfectly. One of those characters you love to hate since he's a douschebag lol).
I just hated Homelander. It was only really at the end of the season that he started to show enough charisma and range to be more than the sort of character who I hope falls down a flight of stairs, breaks their neck, and is never mentioned again.

Which is how I felt about 80% of characters in the show tbf. I ended up watching it because my wife liked it, but at best it was okay in a hokey way.

For The Boys specifically I'd say my favorite was either Frenchy or Butcher.
Butcher should be imprisoned for crimes against the English accent. Painful.
 

kenubrion

Journeyed there and back again
My guess is that the book covers inform peoples' opinions about the appearance of the characters.
 
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Cyphon

Journeyed there and back again
I just hated Homelander. It was only really at the end of the season that he started to show enough charisma and range to be more than the sort of character who I hope falls down a flight of stairs, breaks their neck, and is never mentioned again.

Which is how I felt about 80% of characters in the show tbf. I ended up watching it because my wife liked it, but at best it was okay in a hokey way.
Glad to see some support here. I thought he was saltine bland. I was talking to my buddy Gil about the show and he is in agreement with us as well. I get the feeling this is going to be one of those things where there isn't much middleground.

Which characters did you like?

Butcher should be imprisoned for crimes against the English accent. Painful.
I have read others mention this. I don't think I have the ear to pick out a good accent vs a bad one when it comes to English. I didn't have a problem with it.
 

Darwin

Journeyed there and back again
Oh that's real tho. I worked for a Brit for 5 years and he could seamlessly drop the word cunt into any sentence and still somehow manage to sound charming.
 

Peat

Journeyed there and back again
99.5 sure he's English. Cockney in the comics (thanks Wiki), pretty sure Popclaw refers to him as English at some point - it was only at that point my wife realised he was meant to be English. Cockney's an east end Londoner for those who don't know.

I can get why Darwin thought Ozzie as he does sound a bit Ozzie at times - sometimes Mockney (Cockney accents for people who aren't actually Cockneys) - sometimes I've no idea what. It was *really* bad. As in, I reserve my right to be offended at the portrayal of my culture bad. The weird thing is they changed a few things about the characters - why not change where Butcher's from if he can't do the accent? Or maybe it was some sort of deliberate thing. I dunno.

Glad to see some support here. I thought he was saltine bland. I was talking to my buddy Gil about the show and he is in agreement with us as well. I get the feeling this is going to be one of those things where there isn't much middleground.

Which characters did you like?
From the get go? Frenchie, and, uhm... I mean a bunch of them were okay, but only Frenchie grabbed me. Maeve when used. By the end of it I did find both Homelander and A-Train more interesting, I think it took seeing their backgrounds to give them life.

Butcher's actor did a good sell on the whole charming bullying sociopath thing - I enjoyed him, even if I struggle to look past that accent - but weirdly seeing his background made me less interested.

I could see myself liking the second season... but also not. I must admit, part of its I'm a bit tired with the whole "But they're all dickheads" thing.

Which, to bring it back to WoT, is something I am a little nervous about. Because part of what I like about is that by and large they're not giant pillocks, and that it is sincere about there being good and right. If they want to change that, it'll be a hard sell for me.
 

Darwin

Journeyed there and back again
If we have to choose between an untenable adaptation true to the books that gets canceled after 1 season or what amounts to a fan-fiction rewrite that goes the whole way, I'd choose the latter. Things really start picking up with the protagonists in book 4. The show needs to make it at LEAST that far!